Are cyclist just too superior to keep their masks/buffs on

[DieselnDust]

Denmark compared to SA, you might as well be on mars.

I know it's well intentioned, but it only really shows us what could be possible in dreamland.

I'd love to see what a service delivery protest looks like in Kobenhaven?

 

 

Denmark is one of those places where Socialism is done right,....mostly. It has its issues, like its neighbours. But the basic building block is "we're in this together". It helps that most people are like minded and the diversity of thinking is not as scattered as it in SA.

But it hasn't turned ugly there yet. That little baltic/Northsea part of Northern Europe hasn't had wave 2 or 3 yet. Beijing just hit a 2nd wave

[Wayne pudding Mol]

What I do could hardly be considered running. It's more shuffling. I look forward to the day where I can call myself a jogger.

this time next year you'll be updating us on your iron man training....

[Jewbacca]

this time next year you'll be updating us on your iron man training....

Then pictures of his new tattoo.......

[Duane_Bosch]

Then pictures of his new tattoo.......

I've picked it out already. Can you get the tat if you do a Half Iron Man?

 

*edit. Ok I didn't realize it was actually a thing till now. And..... If I'd done an Irom Man i'd tattoo that on my forehead.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Duane_Bosch

[Eldron]

Denmark compared to SA, you might as well be on mars.

I know it's well intentioned, but it only really shows us what could be possible in dreamland.

I'd love to see what a service delivery protest looks like in Kobenhaven?

Yea and no. While the Danish model does appear out of reach it does provide a blueprint of sorts for SA.

 

One example it that it costs nothing to consider your fellow South African. You don't "lose" anything by helping others or making a mistake or conceding that you may not be right 100% of the time.

 

Empathy seems to be viewed as weakness in SA (and definitely on thehub!!!).

 

There is no reason why we couldn't start a Danish model in SA right now...

[Eldron]

Denmark is one of those places where Socialism is done right,....mostly. It has its issues, like its neighbours. But the basic building block is "we're in this together". It helps that most people are like minded and the diversity of thinking is not as scattered as it in SA.

But it hasn't turned ugly there yet. That little baltic/Northsea part of Northern Europe hasn't had wave 2 or 3 yet. Beijing just hit a 2nd wave

 

 

Oddly enough if we stick with the textbook meanings then SA is way more socialist than Denmark. In SA the government owns and runs around 700 SOEs in elec, mining, transport, telecommunications etc.

 

In Denmark most companies are PPPs (as far as I know - I'm nowhere near an expert in this field!).

 

Scandinavian Capitalism is the phrase most bandied about - a largely capitalist society with a strong enough social parachute that nobody starves or suffers unecessarily.

 

3 of the nordics are doing well coronawise - Sweden dropped the ball horribly and is currently looking to overtake Italy as the 4th highest per capita death rate corona country....

 

Even in this "utopia" silly political things happen like Danes can visit Sweden but Swedes can't visit Denmark. Theoretically you're supposed to self quarantine for 10 days if you've been to Sweden but as coronatimes continue (and summer hits!!!) people are less likely to follow the rules that strictly.

 

Edit: you lived here for a few years right?

Edited June 17, 2020 by Eldron

[Kranswurm]

Oddly enough if we stick with the textbook meanings then SA is way more socialist than Denmark. In SA the government owns and runs around 700 SOEs in elec, mining, transport, telecommunications etc.

 

In Denmark most companies are PPPs (as far as I know - I'm nowhere near an expert in this field!).

 

Scandinavian Capitalism is the phrase most bandied about - a largely capitalist society with a strong enough social parachute that nobody starves or suffers unecessarily.

 

3 of the nordics are doing well coronawise - Sweden dropped the ball horribly and is currently looking to overtake Italy as the 4th highest per capita death rate corona country....

 

Even in this "utopia" silly political things happen like Danes can visit Sweden but Swedes can't visit Denmark. Theoretically you're supposed to self quarantine for 10 days if you've been to Sweden but as coronatimes continue (and summer hits!!!) people are less likely to follow the rules that strictly.

 

Edit: you lived here for a few years right?

PPPs are becoming the norm here

As an example there is a tender going in at the end of the month for the refurbishment of 20 major buildings in the city centre as a PPP project.

[DieselnDust]

Oddly enough if we stick with the textbook meanings then SA is way more socialist than Denmark. In SA the government owns and runs around 700 SOEs in elec, mining, transport, telecommunications etc.

 

In Denmark most companies are PPPs (as far as I know - I'm nowhere near an expert in this field!).

 

Scandinavian Capitalism is the phrase most bandied about - a largely capitalist society with a strong enough social parachute that nobody starves or suffers unecessarily.

 

3 of the nordics are doing well coronawise - Sweden dropped the ball horribly and is currently looking to overtake Italy as the 4th highest per capita death rate corona country....

 

Even in this "utopia" silly political things happen like Danes can visit Sweden but Swedes can't visit Denmark. Theoretically you're supposed to self quarantine for 10 days if you've been to Sweden but as coronatimes continue (and summer hits!!!) people are less likely to follow the rules that strictly.

 

Edit: you lived here for a few years right?

 

 

Just to the south in The Netherlands so pretty much the same. Most entities are privatised but heavily taxed to pay for that equality. Poor is a relative in Denmark, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Germany. Almost everyone has food on the table and a roof over their heads unless they don't want it and prefer drugs and living in abandoned construction sites. Used to love listening to the political debates. Twelve provinces all with very similar political ideology but each just a little more left than the other. And they's carry on forever. The conservatives were mainly focussed on Dutch people first (very similar to what Trump thumps out now)  but still made very effort to ensure immigrants could be included correctly, i.e commit to being a Dutch citizen, the values and code of conduct.

 

These societies are much much more mature than ours. Centuries of history, conflict and avoidance thereof. They've had a looooooong time to sort out the fundamental issues, to understand what works and what doesn't. I found I fit in there very easily but the degree of nannying took quite a bit of getting used too. The population also doesn't suffer foolish politicians and if they come up with stupid rules their career would be short lived.

 

Then we compare this to SA.......aiyaiyai. Here we can't trust the politicians because being in power here menas just that to politicians. In The Netherlands the term was "Being in Servitude". Many peope went into politics from industry and would often move back there. Very few career poliicians. Here,....well you know, "Ruling party..."

 

We have a long way to go politically and the population needs to be better educated. Embracing history and what it really is would be a great start.

[Eldron]

Just to the south in The Netherlands so pretty much the same. Most entities are privatised but heavily taxed to pay for that equality. Poor is a relative in Denmark, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Germany. Almost everyone has food on the table and a roof over their heads unless they don't want it and prefer drugs and living in abandoned construction sites. Used to love listening to the political debates. Twelve provinces all with very similar political ideology but each just a little more left than the other. And they's carry on forever. The conservatives were mainly focussed on Dutch people first (very similar to what Trump thumps out now) but still made very effort to ensure immigrants could be included correctly, i.e commit to being a Dutch citizen, the values and code of conduct.

 

These societies are much much more mature than ours. Centuries of history, conflict and avoidance thereof. They've had a looooooong time to sort out the fundamental issues, to understand what works and what doesn't. I found I fit in there very easily but the degree of nannying took quite a bit of getting used too. The population also doesn't suffer foolish politicians and if they come up with stupid rules their career would be short lived.

 

Then we compare this to SA.......aiyaiyai. Here we can't trust the politicians because being in power here menas just that to politicians. In The Netherlands the term was "Being in Servitude". Many peope went into politics from industry and would often move back there. Very few career poliicians. Here,....well you know, "Ruling party..."

 

We have a long way to go politically and the population needs to be better educated. Embracing history and what it really is would be a great start.

Damn. Another Bells IOU. The next SA trip is going to be expensive :-)

[DieselnDust]

You bet cha

[splat]

Amongst all this talk of what's good, and right, and legal, has anyone been arrested/fined/sent to the naughty corner/whatever for riding in a group or not wearing a mask?

 

Further to that, is there any (even anecdotal) evidence of anyone getting infected with corona by a group on a bike ride, in SA or anywhere in the world?

 

Running or cycling on your own in Cape Town is particularly dangerous at the moment - muggings and bike jackings are becoming a daily occurrence. Security in those hot spots increased, so the muggers just moved further down the road.

 

Group activities are strongly recommended. Not sure what its like elsewhere in the country...

The real police aren't interested in my group activities, so I will take my chances with the Facebook and Strava police, but not with any criminals...

[DieselnDust]

Running or cycling on your own in Cape Town is particularly dangerous at the moment - muggings and bike jackings are becoming a daily occurrence. Security in those hot spots increased, so the muggers just moved further down the road.

 

Group activities are strongly recommended. Not sure what its like elsewhere in the country...

 

The real police aren't interested in my group activities, so I will take my chances with the Facebook and Strava police, but not with any criminals...

Yes this is a very real issue. There are more people unemployed and likely turning to crime.

More unemployment , more frustration, leads to alocohol and drug abuse leads to abuse of women and children and life of crime becomes a route out. We need to create jobs

[Vetplant]

Running or cycling on your own in Cape Town is particularly dangerous at the moment - muggings and bike jackings are becoming a daily occurrence. Security in those hot spots increased, so the muggers just moved further down the road.

 

Group activities are strongly recommended. Not sure what its like elsewhere in the country...

The real police aren't interested in my group activities, so I will take my chances with the Facebook and Strava police, but not with any criminals...

Lone riders are soft targets, no doubt about that.

 

But how big does your group need to be to discourage an attacker?

 

RiverRat can share some harrowing stories of muggings on Klapperkop and in Groenkloof that were not restricted to lone riders.

 

Once the lone riders dry up the muggers will move to the groups.

 

It feels like an arms race. Once the groups start "packing heat" you know the muggers will do the same.

 

The places where I feel safest are proper access controlled trail parks, like Wolwespruit. This might become our only refuge in future.

[MORNE]

These last few pages....

????

Edited June 17, 2020 by morneS555

[MudLark]

Exercising While Wearing a Mask https://nyti.ms/2N7gDc8

[River Rat]

Exercising While Wearing a Mask https://nyti.ms/2N7gDc8

Interesting Saffa connection.

 

Thankfully, such discomforts likely can be minimized by judicious mask choice and fitting, says Christa Janse van Rensburg, a professor of exercise science at the University of Pretoria in South Africa, who wrote the commentary about masks with her graduate student, Jessica Hamuy Blanco.