Rant: Bad Deals

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

15 minutes ago, Matt said:

My mention of offers and competing bids was in reference to the negotiation phase, before any agreement is reached. Reneging on a firm agreement is a poor show and I can understand your frustration around these deals.

Acceptance of an offer, i.e. agreement on a deal is viewed as being binding. Would we implement the same instant ban policy for behaviour this like other sites you use? For most instances, probably not. Should we consider harsher sanctions for repeat offenders? Yes, absolutely. 

There's a lot we can do around how ratings are used, for example what the implications are if aggregate ratings fall to a certain level. And there's a lot we can learn from the many platforms abroad who face similar challenges.

 

Anybody getting a 1 star review should immediately raise some kind of process. That should be an immediate warning sign. There is unfortunately at the moment no way to get the attention of an admin, so there is no way to flag repeat offenders. 

[Mountain Bru]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

In a smaller forum-driven community it is a great approach, but practically it's just not a good fit for Bike Hub. 

@Nico van Loggerenberg ????This post should tell you everything you need to know. In a "forum-driven community", you can expect people to behave as if they're in a community. On a "market-place-driven-website", expect people to behave as if they're in a market place and shaft each other at every corner to maximize profits. This is the decision the admins have made, and now we have to live with it. 

But if you apply the Rouxtjie-Rule, you'll probably have more luck with your dealings on the classifieds. I forget the exact number, but basically only deal with people with a post count above 1000. Basically only deal with the "forum-community" members, not the "market place" members. 

But as an alternative to stalking the classifieds, if you know what you want, you can put up a "wanted" ad. I've always been pretty surprised by the response when I post that I'm looking for somethings. 

Also.... WOOOOOOOSAAAAAAAAA.... This is a sport we do for leisure. If it's causing you stress, you're doing it wrong.  

[Louis for real]

1 . Seller rating. 5 stars no less even 4 1/2  stars ???? walk away.

2.forum posts by seller/buyer.Read them.

3.membership period. If they have been here long enough. Usually they good people.

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

14 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

@Nico van Loggerenberg ????This post should tell you everything you need to know. In a "forum-driven community", you can expect people to behave as if they're in a community. On a "market-place-driven-website", expect people to behave as if they're in a market place and shaft each other at every corner to maximize profits. This is the decision the admins have made, and now we have to live with it. 

But if you apply the Rouxtjie-Rule, you'll probably have more luck with your dealings on the classifieds. I forget the exact number, but basically only deal with people with a post count above 1000. Basically only deal with the "forum-community" members, not the "market place" members. 

But as an alternative to stalking the classifieds, if you know what you want, you can put up a "wanted" ad. I've always been pretty surprised by the response when I post that I'm looking for somethings. 

Also.... WOOOOOOOSAAAAAAAAA.... This is a sport we do for leisure. If it's causing you stress, you're doing it wrong.  

Totally with you, I think you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, I'm in the market for a bike, and this is a place to buy them - I'm not engaging just because I like riling myself up, but because I want to buy and ride something. Re: your last sentence, someone once said "don't turn my leisure activity into a business activity" and that's how it oftentimes feels. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Nico van Loggerenberg

[robbybzgo]

A mild hijack - for Matt's attention:

What can you do (Admin) when I (buyer) have a written agreement (messages) to purchase an item. The buyer then reneges on the deal. I then give him a low rating. He the spitefully gives me a low rating back (as revenge) making up a cock and bull story (that can be proven as false via the messages sent). What is the RECOURSE??

[mrcg]

A clear-cut case for the return of classified comments, in conjunction with ratings.....????

[Emazing]

Over the years besides the new bikes I have bought at a store I have also purchased bikes and parts on the hub it’s mainly been a absolutely pleasure, met some great people and most are very honest. Only had two kind of bad, nothing major experiences. I would strongly suggest looking at the bike before buying it and the pasts ask for pics.  If you can’t find anything you like in two years there a problem..

[Mountain Bru]

13 minutes ago, robbybzgo said:

A mild hijack - for Matt's attention:

What can you do (Admin) when I (buyer) have a written agreement (messages) to purchase an item. The buyer then reneges on the deal. I then give him a low rating. He the spitefully gives me a low rating back (as revenge) making up a cock and bull story (that can be proven as false via the messages sent). What is the RECOURSE??

Included in this should be what happens when I'm the seller, and someone has a written agreement with (messages) to buy something, and then just disappears. This happens a lot too, and it's a big part of the reason why sellers basically just sell stuff to whoever pitches first with cash regardless of what arrangements have been made (which is kind of what started this whole discussion). As a seller, I don't want to turn people away that are willing to actually give me money in the hope that the guy that told me he's coming on the weekend actually pitches and doesn't change his mind or find a better deal or get denied by his management. 

I think the current "rating rules" say that you only should only rate someone if you actually buy/sell something from someone, and not just if you speak to them and the deal falls through. Maybe @Matt can correct me though?



 

[Mountain Bru]

8 minutes ago, mrcg said:

A clear-cut case for the return of classified comments, in conjunction with ratings.....????

Bump!

Then we could use the "Dibs" system, and "Second Dibs", and "I'll take it if those guys don't take it". That system worked at least as well as the current one. 

[aquaratza]

Loved the "smooth brain hubbers consider this business savvy" ????

My worst cycling related purchase to date was also my first and it was from a dealership, nice. In short I overpaid for a dodgy used bike. I was more discerning on the next bike purchase, which I still have - it's about to get a fork upgrade - bought today off the Hub WOOOO such excite. The seller was friendly and negotiable on price.

I've done probably 30 deals to date on the Hub (I'd guess) and all of them have been decent, however I did recently have an experience where someone listed a gravel bike for sale for a good price. We agreed to meet up to do the deal and about an hour or so before the agreed time the seller messaged to say he had changed his mind and was going to keep the bike. The price was good so part of me didn't believe the deal would happen. I replied "no worries, good luck" and left it at that. Hadn't thought about it much until I saw this thread.

Separately, good question @robbybzgo (revenge ratings)

[DJuice]

6 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

Bump!

Then we could use the "Dibs" system, and "Second Dibs", and "I'll take it if those guys don't take it". That system worked at least as well as the current one. 

Upping the price with a box of smarties.

[ACE Cycles]

7 hours ago, robbybzgo said:

A mild hijack - for Matt's attention:

What can you do (Admin) when I (buyer) have a written agreement (messages) to purchase an item. The buyer then reneges on the deal. I then give him a low rating. He the spitefully gives me a low rating back (as revenge) making up a cock and bull story (that can be proven as false via the messages sent). What is the RECOURSE??

Admin removes the spiteful rating against you, every time 

[Quagga]

OP glad you posted here. 
Because I can make sure I never sell to you or buy from you. 
 

Bikehub and the rating system has worked well for me. 
 

Seems you want the @Matt to code the arseholeness out of peoples character 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Quagga

[KirJOL]

Just a suggestion, could it help offering a deposit, say 10% for the item? That way you set a seller's mind at ease that you are serious about the purchase. I've sold many things over the years on multiple platforms. While I try to behave like a gentleman and tell all prospectives that I have someone booked to view the good, often times a potential buyer goes dark. Thus its an internal battle to not sell to whoever is ready to close the deal down first. Many seller's are desperate for the cash flow. State your intent with a deposit and an offer to purchase perhaps? Maybe save this formality for sizeable purchases like a complete bicycle of course. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by KirJOL

[Carmichael]

For me it boils down to the person your are engaing with for the sale of the item, i tried to buy bike for my little one the hub, contacted the seller 1 minute after she posted the add ,  she said all good i did not neg to lower the selling price, told her i am on my way to stellies to come and collect, only to get a whats app driving into stellies saying sorry bike is sold... Yes i got be*&^k , she did not answer my phone calls etc etc. But left it there, got a coffee in stellies and drove home. The other sale time , i bought a epic entry ( they go like hot cakes), told him give me the weekend to get my cash together, by Monday he has honoured his word and kept it for me ( while fighting of the wolves), and we concluded the deal. So for me it is the same as bussiness dealings it is the person you are dealing with and not the company and or platform. Just my 2cents.

[ChrisF]

11 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

@Nico van Loggerenberg ????This post should tell you everything you need to know. In a "forum-driven community", you can expect people to behave as if they're in a community. On a "market-place-driven-website", expect people to behave as if they're in a market place and shaft each other at every corner to maximize profits.

... snip ....

Also.... WOOOOOOOSAAAAAAAAA.... This is a sport we do for leisure. If it's causing you stress, you're doing it wrong.  

 

THIS .... Most of us are here as part of our leisure.  If this forum/classifieds adds stress to your day ... time to take a break.

 

This WAS a "forum-driven community".  In fact, few years back cycling magazines had articles about the "Bike Hub Classifieds" .... telling people that the "cycling community" keeps sellers honest .....

 

Life happened .... comments was posted for the sake of commenting, rather than focussing on "faulty/misleading" adds.  Admin set about removing comments .....

 

NO MORE community moderated adds .... just another FB Marketplace, Gumtree, etc.  It did not take long for more and more threads about "bad purchases" .... MANY of these threads around ....

 

Then "Hub Pay" .... interesting concept.  Certainly something I would use if was to buy an expensive item sight unseen ....

 

Somehow this does not seem to reduce the number of new threads about disgruntled buyers ....  Knee jerk certainly would be to say well you "should have" used Hub Pay ....

 

 

Either way, the days of a "community" is gone, at least from the Classifieds.  The new buyer has ZERO benefit from the "cycling community" on the Bike Hub Forum.

 

Bike Hub Classifieds is now just like FB Marketplace, Gumtree, etc, except for HubPay.

 

It is what the Admin has been driving towards for the last couple of years.  For better or worse, it is what it is ....