Assaulted by fellow cyclist- Cradle 6 November

[ajnkzn]

Controversial incoming…

 

Is there any possibility that riding on the road and feeling (even if it subconsciously) threatened by cars could lead to a higher likelihood of road rage than for mountain / gravel riders?

 

Honest question, I literally poop myself riding on the road and feel pretty stressed the whole time I hear a car behind me. 
 

As much as it’s exercise with the associated endorphins and socializing with friends, does road riding not come with higher adrenalin and cortisol levels, even if not something that a rider is conscious of?

 

Such a pity we don’t have dedicated, barriered off cycle lanes. 

[Eddy Gordo]

Guys, it is human nature. Some people just deal with anger better and others really struggle. Look at all the road rage and violence in our country. Schools should implement some sort of conflict resolutions module as apposed to guidance. Others are like are you crazy, get upset for what!!

Unfortunately I also have an extremely short fuse. Lots of things can trigger it, from rude clients to like @Paul Ruinaardmentioned a branch hitting, or you make a silly mistake. I was exposed to alot of street violence at a young age, and was almost always in fights. will laugh with people making fun, teasing me etc. Even light tapping or hitting, but once the mood swing is triggered Damn. People will hear as I get vocal. Carry on further and we will see. I went on to do karate for a few years and I learned how to control myself. I also learned how much damage can be done with just 2 fists, elbows and feet. The bullies at school would push my buttons, I would get upset but always took myself out of the situation as with many others. However one bully quickly realised that I am not to be F'd with. The same happened overtime in my area, where some people knew dont mess with him. I think karate helped me alot, but it also made me kinda dangerous. Then I learned to shoot firearms. I will never ever own one for fear of what I would do with it, but more so because of the damage that a firearm or even a knife can do. And then the consequences of hurting someone in that manner, I wont be able to handle it today even if justified. I rather approach the useless police.

I dont believe in striking first. We can have a moerse argument swearing each others mothers etc and I will be beyond extremely upset. I would be thinking of ways of snapping your bones, what my first point of impact will be, how I am gonna block and counter what you throw at me and then destroy you. I have taken a knife off someone and threatened to kill him with it, stared down the barrel of a 9mm and told the skollie he better not miss cause I am taking it off him and gonna f him up with it. He turn around and walked away. But I take myself out of the situation. Recently I stopped riding and doing offroad 4x4 excursions with a group of guys that would push my buttons in this manner. 

The attacker in this thread is a diff breed. I have encountered plenty like that. They dont think of anything else but beating you to a pulp and will show no remorse for what they did. One day he is gonna brag about it to the wrong people or he is gonna encounter someone like me. Road rage could most likely be the cause or something happened the night before in his personal life and he had to let it out. unfortunately in the wrong manner.

[eala]

8 minutes ago, andrew5336 said:

Controversial incoming…

 

Is there any possibility that riding on the road and feeling (even if it subconsciously) threatened by cars could lead to a higher likelihood of road rage than for mountain / gravel riders?

 

Honest question, I literally poop myself riding on the road and feel pretty stressed the whole time I hear a car behind me. 
 

As much as it’s exercise with the associated endorphins and socializing with friends, does road riding not come with higher adrenalin and cortisol levels, even if not something that a rider is conscious of?

 

Such a pity we don’t have dedicated, barriered off cycle lanes. 

If you ride and your heart is already pumping the good stuff ,you are already in a fight or flight mode . Anything can trigger violence then , same as in a rugby game . Any car or aggressive rider is immediately a threat because you are in a vulnerable position  and you will react accordingly   

[eala]

I have been in a situation where a motorist ,A gym baboon in his bakkie, cut me off . Both of us went into super aggressive mode within a few seconds ,so much that this guy dropped his passenger and proceeded to look for me riding around . If we had weapons' things could have ended badly

[Robbie Stewart]

27 minutes ago, Paul Ruinaard said:

Hmm

the piece about working out very quickly how to inflict maximum hurt is eye opening. For me  If i was in the past triggered I would use bottles, bricks, guns, poles etc.

I am also aware i don't register pain when triggered. I can feel the blows if someone strikes back  but i just don't register - its like a dull impact but no pain.

I have had a memory of people in a situation many years ago much older, stronger and more mature hitting back in the hope it would stop me but i would just carry on coming. My brother was 6 years older than me and he and his friends knew to stay away and not trigger me.

Like you say - formative years and a long time ago. I still find myself working out the odds in tight situations and a calmness descends, things go quiet and i make decisions very quickly. In hindsight people are amazed at how i change and will go from retreat and walk away to attack and forward.

Again i recognise this in situations and cant say i would have done what happened here to the OP as this was deliberate - but inside every one of us lives a shadow, you need to embrace and love that darkness. Very pop psych and all but also pretty necessary. Inner kids etc are also part of us.

Many hours on bikes and very extreme distances also helped to run away from some of this stuff

Ja, I also felt the dull thud, and dealt with the ramifications afterwards.

I would usually go in for a pre-selected target zone, i.e. break the nose on the first punch and then keep on smashing it until the aggressor is the victim. Usually I would walk away relatively unharmed after this. I wasn't the oke who would first stand around puffing his chest. I would go in swinging while the other oke is looking over his shoulder at his mates for affirmation. I would use all the weapons at my disposal. Fist, knee, elbow, heel - whatever was needed.
 

But as you also mention, now I also have this inner calm knowing that I have assessed the situation and I already have a formulated plan of action in the event that things go pear shaped, and I trust my own abilities to get myself out of dodge. I am never the aggressor, but when it comes to self-defence less is definitely NOT more. I would first properly neutralise and then only leave.

But now I have a wife and a daughter and I am always placing their interests ahead of my own, so I have reached a stage in my life where I turn the other cheek, and walk away regardless of how angry I am inside. It's just not worth it to pursue aggression.

I believe the strength of a man is not measured in how much damage he can inflict, but rather in how he carries himself in a situation where inflicting the damage is warranted but where he chooses not to. To me, that conveys more strength of character.

[117]

Before we drift off topic somewhat Dr. Phil style, is there any news from the authorities and the legal teams @FondTF2

[dave303e]

I have seen references pop up about weapons a few times.

Something to note- before you can own a gun, you need to obtain a competency certificate. This involves a few steps.

But what I feel needs to be reinforced, if someone asks for a reference for their gun competency I hope everyone is confident enough to know someone who should not own a gun and refuse to give reference. A simple no would have stopped a lot of incidents.

It may lose you a friend or cause tension in a relationship. But you need to look beyond that at general public safety.

Please most importantly tell your daughters. If their husband/partner wants a gun and they don't feel like that person has the self control or the right temperament . They must say no and not give the reference.

[Danger Dassie]

48 minutes ago, 117 said:

Before we drift off topic somewhat Dr. Phil style, is there any news from the authorities and the legal teams @FondTF2

Would expect Fond will be able to update? 

In a similar vein though. This past weekend on Saturday in the Cradle on the Caves road, a mate of mine was taken down by a triathlete stopping to do a (likely) u-turn, who then left the scene. 
Mate was attended to by other riders and admitted with numerous injuries including T1, T2 etc ... 

This guy was in one of the tri training groups in the Cradle and I have a fairly complete description. On the off chance it, or an acquaintance is lurking on the hub and reading this. Here is a chance to own up and step up, feel free to send a PM so that we can put you guys in touch for a much need talk. 
Believe me. It will serve better than having to be found. Do the right thing. 

[The Ouzo]

6 minutes ago, Danger Dassie said:

Would expect Fond will be able to update? 

In a similar vein though. This past weekend on Saturday in the Cradle on the Caves road, a mate of mine was taken down by a triathlete stopping to do a (likely) u-turn, who then left the scene. 
Mate was attended to by other riders and admitted with numerous injuries including T1, T2 etc ... 

This guy was in one of the tri training groups in the Cradle and I have a fairly complete description. On the off chance it, or an acquaintance is lurking on the hub and reading this. Here is a chance to own up and step up, feel free to send a PM so that we can put you guys in touch for a much need talk. 
Believe me. It will serve better than having to be found. Do the right thing. 

Not cool. The few times I've ridden there I always got the feeling it to much of a free for all with to many not adhering to basic road rules etc.

 

Was this tri athlete in team kit ? If so, I know of 1 of the teams that regularly trains there and if needed can probably get you in touch with their coach.

[Danger Dassie]

26 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

Not cool. The few times I've ridden there I always got the feeling it to much of a free for all with to many not adhering to basic road rules etc.

 

Was this tri athlete in team kit ? If so, I know of 1 of the teams that regularly trains there and if needed can probably get you in touch with their coach.

Cheers. Yeah it's one of the regular groups, I've a certain idea which group from a description. Will make contact with some of the coaches at some point soon.

Couple of posts about it on the Cradle runners and riders FB group as well, massive thanks to the Cycle Lab club and vehicle who stopped to assist and secure the scene. Club car parked and kept him shielded whilst waiting for EMS. 

[Ispeed_V]

Unfortunately, there are still no positive leads. 

The coward is still at large and hiding behind anonymity. 

I am slowly having to come to terms with the fact that this guy and his supposed friends/cycling buddies are all cowards if they are keeping quiet.  Yes, there is still that glimmer of hope that one day is one day that guilt catches up with one of them and they come forward. The unfortunate reality is that this may never happen, and I just end up being another statistic.

While the physical scars are healing (thanks to the awesome work of Dr Johannes), the emotional scars (both me and family) are far from healed. Weekly counseling is indeed helping.

As a lot of you have mentioned, there are plenty people walking around with very short fuses and are on the brink of snapping, but that still does not condone the actions of this ........ As I mentioned previously, this guy was solely intent on one thing, and nothing, in my mind, would have changed that.

PS: @Danger Dassie here's hoping the Tri Guy/Gal does the right thing and owns up to their wrong doing

Edited November 25, 2022 by FondTF2

[DJR]

...........I'm more of a lover than a fighter..........😉

[Robbie Stewart]

1 hour ago, eala said:

If you ride and your heart is already pumping the good stuff ,you are already in a fight or flight mode .

Since I'm not a pilot . . .

[The Ouzo]

19 minutes ago, FondTF2 said:

Unfortunately, there are still no positive leads. 

The coward is still at large and hiding behind anonymity. 

I am slowly having to come to terms with the fact that this guy and his supposed friends/cycling buddies are all cowards if they are keeping quiet.  Yes, there is still that glimmer of hope that one day is one day that guilt catches up with one of them and they come forward. The unfortunate reality is that this may never happen, and I just end up being another statistic.

While the physical scars are healing (thanks to the awesome work of Dr Johannes), the emotional scars (both me and family) are far from healed. Weekly counseling is indeed helping.

As a lot of you have mentioned, there are plenty people walking around with very short fuses and are on the brink of snapping, but that still does not condone the actions of this ........ As I mentioned previously, this guy was solely intent on one thing, and nothing, in my mind, would have changed that.

PS: @Danger Dassie here's hoping the Tri Guy/Gal does the right thing and owns up to their wrong doing

my apologies for derailing your thread Fond.

I hope for your sake this guy is found. As you've said, a short fuse does not excuse such actions.

 

[Eddy Gordo]

Any chance of posting some boards requesting info etc on any poles along the route?

[peetwindhoek]

Honest question, are we sure he was actually PART of the group he was seen in/with. The cradle has many people and could it be that he just managed to pass those in the group at that stage?