Dopers suck

[GaryvdM]

My only issue is how people can crucify 1 rider as an ex-doper and others are regarded as heroes. Should all be equal.

 

Maybe I missed it. Which ex-dopers are being regarded as heroes?

Edited October 1, 2018 by GaryvdM

[Patchelicious]

Maybe I missed it. Which ex-dopers are being regarded as heroes?

Clenbutador

Edited October 1, 2018 by Patchelicious

[J Wakefield]

Hope no offence was taken, just an honest question - your insights are always greatly valued 

no bud not at all, was more a tongue in cheek reply - nothing more or less.

 

To answer the question is kinda 2 fold. you will always have athletes who will cheat, from Junior to 70yr old Masters and everyone in-between. However, the stigma that "so many age groupers are dirty" honestly isnt true. No today anyway.

 

In terms of knowing, I do know the % is little and the larger majority are clean. Thats all I can say.

 

You also never know anyone is dirty until they test +, yes, you may have an idea, pick up some info, see a small change in data etc but until that test comes back, suspicion is just that.

 

Also of vets you need to know have ridden since they were kids or early elite, developed and have also learnt to use their race craft - reading a race for example to make the move or simply have 2 big efforts in them and they know when to use them at the right time. This alone will put them in a position for a good result. 

 

They also approach their training like their work and are often successful at business, I have age group athletes that put many Elite riders to shame in terms of approach and execution. Again, this is is a very important variable to training and progression. 

 

Trust me I know better than most about athletes crossing the line, so I am not defending anyone here but merely taking the time to explain outside variables that play a big part in an athletes results as a age grouper even against the current crop of "Elites" in SA.

 

They not as dirty as the guys being beat think and no, not all are this side of the line. 

 

 

 

 

[Patchelicious]

Maybe those chirps about E2E and vets are just as tongue in cheek as your comments.....

[gtr1]

no bud not at all, was more a tongue in cheek reply - nothing more or less.

 

To answer the question is kinda 2 fold. you will always have athletes who will cheat, from Junior to 70yr old Masters and everyone in-between. However, the stigma that "so many age groupers are dirty" honestly isnt true. No today anyway.

 

In terms of knowing, I do know the % is little and the larger majority are clean. Thats all I can say.

 

You also never know anyone is dirty until they test +, yes, you may have an idea, pick up some info, see a small change in data etc but until that test comes back, suspicion is just that.

 

Also of vets you need to know have ridden since they were kids or early elite, developed and have also learnt to use their race craft - reading a race for example to make the move or simply have 2 big efforts in them and they know when to use them at the right time. This alone will put them in a position for a good result. 

 

They also approach their training like their work and are often successful at business, I have age group athletes that put many Elite riders to shame in terms of approach and execution. Again, this is is a very important variable to training and progression. 

 

Trust me I know better than most about athletes crossing the line, so I am not defending anyone here but merely taking the time to explain outside variables that play a big part in an athletes results as a age grouper even against the current crop of "Elites" in SA.

 

They not as dirty as the guys being beat think and no, not all are this side of the line.

John, nice reply. I race in a vets category, and also raced in junior and elite category years ago (before it was classified as elite) I have never doped, and I have raced against guys that have. So I have seen first hand the difference it can make. And believe me it can be huge. From being pulled 1 day to winning the next :-(

 

All I can say is I am still able to win in a vets category, and often hold my own in younger categories. So this makes me think that there is not that much doping going on ( can't say all the time) as everyone seems to believe. Otherwise I am just phenomenal, which I am not.

 

I probably train harder, and smarter, now than when I was junior/elite.

 

And as you say, years in the legs, and experience mean a lot more than fitness at times.

[gtr1]

Maybe I missed it. Which ex-dopers are being regarded as heroes?

There are probably more people that think Lance is a hero than those that don't . You want a polarised debate, debate Lance.

 

Same with Contador, Yates, Ullrich. The French still love Virenque, and he is part of the Tour team. Probably one of the biggest dopers.

 

yet people hate Rasmussen ???

 

If I had to do some research I would probably find a list way too long of those that have doped that are still held in high esteem.

[J Wakefield]

John, nice reply. I race in a vets category, and also raced in junior and elite category years ago (before it was classified as elite) I have never doped, and I have raced against guys that have. So I have seen first hand the difference it can make. And believe me it can be huge. From being pulled 1 day to winning the next :-(

 

All I can say is I am still able to win in a vets category, and often hold my own in younger categories. So this makes me think that there is not that much doping going on ( can't say all the time) as everyone seems to believe. Otherwise I am just phenomenal, which I am not.

 

I probably train harder, and smarter, now than when I was junior/elite.

 

And as you say, years in the legs, and experience mean a lot more than fitness at times.

 

Then this is a perfect example and well done on the results and approach to getting them. I would say you probably train smarter, not harder and that is the key in todays times.

[gtr1]

Maybe I missed it. Which ex-dopers are being regarded as heroes?

Just go look at the World Champs thread and see how many love the fact that Valverde won.

[FootballingCyclist]

Personally, I dont know the guy so I have nothing against KE, I read his story/post on FB where he let it out a few months back and I sympathized to a certain extent(not about the doping, but about the family side, having a 3yr old daughter myself I couldn't imagine breaking up my family and not seeing her everyday)

 

So my take is that I am not against him riding in unsanctioned races, I do however feel he shouldn't "race" these races. He should start and ride at the back, helping the older folk, youngsters etc, giving them advice(on riding style or position, not life choices and/or EPO choices), pushing them along if he feels they made need it and doing that kind of thing. Yes I am sure he will be back racing when his ban is over, but for now he should just keep training and trusting his programme and coach or experience so that when his ban is over then he can race again properly .

 

I feel this way he will gain alot more respect from the cyclists than he will by still racing whilst still banned and claiming podium positions..

 

Just my opinion anyway.

Edited October 1, 2018 by FootballingCyclist

[Andrew Steer]

Personally, I dont know the guy so I have nothing against KE, I read his story/post on FB where he let it out a few months back and I sympathized to a certain extent(not about the doping, but about the family side, having a 3yr old daughter myself I couldn't imagine breaking up my family and not seeing her everyday)

 

So my take is that I am not against him riding in unsanctioned races, I do however feel he shouldn't "race" these races. He should start and ride at the back, helping the older folk, youngsters etc, giving them advice(on riding still our position, not life choices and/or EPO choices), pushing them along if he feels they made need it and do that kind of thing. Yes I am sure he will be back racing when his ban is over, but for now he should just keep training and trusting his programme and coach or experience so that when his ban is over then he can race again properly .

 

I feel this way he will gain alot more respect from the cyclists than he will by still racing whilst still banned and claiming podium positions..

 

Just my opinion anyway.

Couldn't agree more, well put 

[Christie]

Doping control in SA is not very strict - many of the pros got bust based on tip-offs rather than tests. I think that it is easier to get away with doping in SA.

Re vets, there is less testing there than Elite - getting bust whould be less likely.

But if you have to dope in SA to get results, you may just as well get another sport. Quality of competition is not that high, and race distances are short compared to Europe.

[Tristand]

no bud not at all, was more a tongue in cheek reply - nothing more or less.

 

To answer the question is kinda 2 fold. you will always have athletes who will cheat, from Junior to 70yr old Masters and everyone in-between. However, the stigma that "so many age groupers are dirty" honestly isnt true. No today anyway.

 

In terms of knowing, I do know the % is little and the larger majority are clean. Thats all I can say.

 

You also never know anyone is dirty until they test +, yes, you may have an idea, pick up some info, see a small change in data etc but until that test comes back, suspicion is just that.

 

Also of vets you need to know have ridden since they were kids or early elite, developed and have also learnt to use their race craft - reading a race for example to make the move or simply have 2 big efforts in them and they know when to use them at the right time. This alone will put them in a position for a good result. 

 

They also approach their training like their work and are often successful at business, I have age group athletes that put many Elite riders to shame in terms of approach and execution. Again, this is is a very important variable to training and progression. 

 

Trust me I know better than most about athletes crossing the line, so I am not defending anyone here but merely taking the time to explain outside variables that play a big part in an athletes results as a age grouper even against the current crop of "Elites" in SA.

 

They not as dirty as the guys being beat think and no, not all are this side of the line. 

 

 

 

 

Angry ex-girlfriends are also an excellent source of news on anyone doping.

[DieselnDust]

Personally, I dont know the guy so I have nothing against KE, I read his story/post on FB where he let it out a few months back and I sympathized to a certain extent(not about the doping, but about the family side, having a 3yr old daughter myself I couldn't imagine breaking up my family and not seeing her everyday)

 

So my take is that I am not against him riding in unsanctioned races, I do however feel he shouldn't "race" these races. He should start and ride at the back, helping the older folk, youngsters etc, giving them advice(on riding still our position, not life choices and/or EPO choices), pushing them along if he feels they made need it and do that kind of thing. Yes I am sure he will be back racing when his ban is over, but for now he should just keep training and trusting his programme and coach or experience so that when his ban is over then he can race again properly .

 

I feel this way he will gain alot more respect from the cyclists than he will by still racing whilst still banned and claiming podium positions..

 

Just my opinion anyway.

 

 

Great post and I only have issue with one thing.

 

Imposing our beliefs and expectation of conduct on others.

 

I know many mtbers from the garden route area and let me tell you than KE has put in a lot in that community. From coaching for fitness to skills, to running an efficient bike shop in Plett. And this was before and after his doping conviction. You'd have to go back to a time before BikHub existed to start talking about KE and his passion for cycling. 

Ok so he doped. He got caught paid the price and is still riding his bike. 

Lets leave our own expectations for the mirror.

As my late grandmother said "be the change you want to see in the world."

 

that alone provides me with a point of reflection whenever I feel like jumping that red light, or putting voetiniehoek in a 60km/hr zone or whatever you find irksome

[Quagga]

Great post and I only have issue with one thing.

 

Imposing our beliefs and expectation of conduct on others.

 

I know many mtbers from the garden route area and let me tell you than KE has put in a lot in that community. From coaching for fitness to skills, to running an efficient bike shop in Plett. And this was before and after his doping conviction. You'd have to go back to a time before BikHub existed to start talking about KE and his passion for cycling. 

Ok so he doped. He got caught paid the price and is still riding his bike. 

Lets leave our own expectations for the mirror.

As my late grandmother said "be the change you want to see in the world."

 

that alone provides me with a point of reflection whenever I feel like jumping that red light, or putting voetiniehoek in a 60km/hr zone or whatever you find irksome

I dont think anyone is imposing anything on someone else.

 

Like you said, we can think what we want and most people here "think" it was a box move on KE part to ride a race/funride etc.

 

Then they say how THEY feel about what he should be doing. 

 

Edit

I can expect / think / feel someone should do something but now way can I tell you or FORCE you to do it.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Quagga

[Meezo]

Great post and I only have issue with one thing.

 

Imposing our beliefs and expectation of conduct on others.

 

I know many mtbers from the garden route area and let me tell you than KE has put in a lot in that community. From coaching for fitness to skills, to running an efficient bike shop in Plett. And this was before and after his doping conviction. You'd have to go back to a time before BikHub existed to start talking about KE and his passion for cycling. 

Ok so he doped. He got caught paid the price and is still riding his bike. 

Lets leave our own expectations for the mirror.

As my late grandmother said "be the change you want to see in the world."

 

that alone provides me with a point of reflection whenever I feel like jumping that red light, or putting voetiniehoek in a 60km/hr zone or whatever you find irksome

 

your late grandmother was gandhi

[DieselnDust]

your late grandmother was gandhi

 

 

hey,.... I knew her before I knew of this bloke Gandhi...

 

its a matter of perspective you know

Edited October 1, 2018 by DieselnDust