Road Bikes Disc Brakes vs Rim Brakes!

[bertusras]

I was thinking about this during my deliberations as well. Your brakes can only work and slow you down as well as the traction/ friction between the tyres and the road surface. So if the road is damp/ wet, how would a higher brake force impacting on a wheel (discs) stop the wheel more quickly and not lose traction, as a good set of Swisstop pads will also easily be able to lock a rim brake? 

 

It's not about force, it's about modulation and control, which is why cars have anti-lock braking systems.

[TNT1]

I thought the marketers hyped an aero advantage for discs as well?

[PlemPlem]

As well as - size and surface area of the brakes.

Fair enough, the discs work a little better in the wet but the size of the tyre patch and the friction on the road is still the same though. If you lose traction at 500N (just as an example), what difference would the the brake type make when one looses traction at 501N and both brake types would be able to achieve this? If the difference was as great as made out to be, why are some of the pro teams not using them more?

[Patchelicious]

Fair enough, the discs work a little better in the wet but the size of the tyre patch and the friction on the road is still the same though. If you lose traction at 500N (just as an example), what difference would the the brake type make when one looses traction at 501N and both brake types would be able to achieve this? If the difference was as great as made out to be, why are some of the pro teams not using them more?

AS a pro team you have other things to consider, like wheel changes, compatibility with neutral support vehicles etc. Pro's are also much better at bike handling, so the braking gains for them is smaller than it would be for us noobs. 

[Jbr]

I see a lot of exageration on both sides... for me :

 

Discs :

+ consistency / perf in the wet

- weight

 

Rim :

+ weight

- perf in the wet

- race rim life

 

For me the noise isn't a +/- as both systems will eventually always rub and make a noise at some point

 

For me the brake type is not a criteria to chose a bike, at least not the main one, as there are many other things on a bike that will impact your performance a bit more (especially the meat that sits on it)

Edited November 9, 2020 by Jbr

[Patchelicious]

I see a lot of exageration on both sides... for me :

 

Discs :

+ consistency / perf in the wet

- weight

 

Rim :

+ weight

- perf in the wet

- race rim life

 

For me the brake type is not a criteria to chose a bike, at least not the main one, as there are many other things on a bike that will impact your performance a bit more (especially the meat that sits on it)

 

Is rim life really an issue? I have never seen rims wearing out?

[Jbr]

Is rim life really an issue? I have never seen rims wearing out?

MMmh not if you invest in good brands that do a lot of R&D to find the right resins. But definitely if you buy entry level carbon rims and you don't ride very well. I have bought a set of wheels that were ****** because the guy overheat them by braking constantly and probably hit a pothole or a cat eye or whatever, causing permanent damage to the wheel, that I missed on inspection and only felt afterwards while riding

Edited November 9, 2020 by Jbr

[Spinnekop]

 

• Replacing pads and bleeding the brakes takes about 20-30 minutes but you honestly only have to do it every year or two (depending on how much you ride) so it's hardly a large issue.  Never had to deal with this crap on rim brakes.
• Eh, most of them are running TA's without a built in or attached lever to save weight. If you don't have a support car you just leave the lever attached. Also if you are not in a race does an extra 2 seconds really matter?  No it doesn't
• Again, taking your time would solve the bent disc problem and you get brake blocks that clip in between the pads for travelling to prevent exactly that.
• Can't say my discs have ever squealed unless they have been wet or muddy.  Mine has.  Countless times.  Not to mention the swish shish sound if you miss align by 0.0005 of a millimeter or put in new pads.

But again, as everyone has said, ride what you prefer.

 

Having had a rim brake bike for 24 years and a disc brake bike for a year and half now I know the following:

1. Disc brakes trumps in the rain.  Every.  Time.
2. Rim brakes brake JUST AS WELL in the dry than disc brakes does.  Here I am comparing Shimano DA dual pivot rim brakes with SRAM HRD AXS disc brakes.  Both very good in the dry.
3. I don't like riding in the rain
4. My disc brake bike has given me more **** than my rim brake bike.  Small niggles of miss alignment of calipers and brakes fading.  This adds to cost.  Bike shop smiles all the way to the bank.
5. I have replaced (on average) my rim pads every 30 000km.  Disc brake pads every 7000km
6. Quick release, through axcel.....all the same.   Just remember your alankey to unlock.
7. Aligning calipers on a rime brake.  Easy.  On a disc brake.....LIVING HELL!  The tolerances are MUCH smaller on road bikes and it takes time to get it perfect.  Replacing your brake pads will $$**($ up the alignment all over again and the re-centering starts all over again.  Or you can give it to your bike shop and they will smile all the way to the bank.
8. Replacing cables on a rim brake....easy.  On a disc brake (bleeding) .....time consuming and if you don't do it yourself, expensive.  Each time your brakes does not feel 100% the bike shop will tell you "It needs a bleed".  Do you bleed it a lot?  No.  But replacing brake pads is a schlep as the calipers does NOT retract as the marketing BS tells you it does.  It takes a couple of rides to get the brakes not to drag anymore.  
9. I have learned more swear words in the past year and a half riding with my disc brake bike than my rim brake bike.

All said and done..........Bike manufacturers will force us to convert to disc.  In 10years time no one will even remember the good old days of no-brakes-in-the-rain rim brakes.........life goes on.

 

I know one thing.........I miss my rim brake bike.

 

On the up..........Shimano should launch their new Di2 at some stage in the next year with "improved" calipers..........

Maybe then the niggles will get sorted.....if you can afford a R50k+ groupset........

 

Time will tell.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Spinnekop

[dave303e]

you can always load your rim braked bike, on your drum braked car, crank the starting arm and drive off on the cobbled road and ignore the future totally...

[Wayne pudding Mol]

I just love strapping my 26er (3 x of course) to my beetle and driving off to a nice trail listening to my wireless.  I keep coins in the ashtray in case I need to make calls along the way.  

 

My map is always in the cubbyhole with a compass in case I get lost and for safety I have a pillow strapped to my chest.

 

All brakes are cool, all bikes are cool.  Some work better, some look better.  Some work and look better.  Some look uber cool and suck balls.  I have all sorts and like them all.  I don't have cool ones that suck balls though.

[TNT1]

Lol's at you lot bringing in cars to the debate.

 

Like a bicycle weighs 2 tons and goes 100km/h +

 

 

It's like this "aero" bike obsession. It's meaningless at funrider speeds and even more meaningless when you are sat in a bunch of riders.

[Eugene]

I still have not warmed up to this disc brake on a road bike thing, but I have accepted that my next road bike will be a disc bike.

 

Not because I want discs, but because that is all you can buy.

 

There aren't many rim brake bikes available in SA, unless you want to go entry level.

[Veebee]

#savetherimbrake

[TNT1]

There aren't many rim brake bikes available in SA, unless you want to go entry level.

Well, ****!

 

https://www.cyclelab.com/products/bikes/road-bikes/carbon-road-bikes?sort=high-low

 

I woulda called those R60k - R100k rim brake bikes high end, but I guess I'm just slumming it.

 

It's worse, these clowns are selling entry level frames at R80k that are rim brake

 

https://www.asgthestore.co.za/product-category/bikes/road-bikes/

Edited November 9, 2020 by TNT1

[Headshot]

While recently selecting which frame type to go for, I researched a myriad of articles, videos and opinions from various sources from the internet. There were countless arguments for and against for both brake types!

At the risk of causing the world's cycling community to split down the middle, here is my 'opinion'.

This includes: 

• disc brake set-ups still have 500 - 800 gr weight disadvantage, depending on group set and frame. Yes, disc weights might be coming down slowly but are not yet compatible with rims at the present time.
• The rim brake installation instructions listed the bike frame and brake manufacturers manuals constituted of two pages; i.e. not really required but mentioned it for comparison sake. The disc brake equivalent was more than 20 pages! This included installation and mounting, aligning, filling the oil, bleeding (with some sort of kit and all kinds of special tools required), maintenance and so on. Rim brakes can be installed, change cables, replace pads and adjust within five minutes per brake. I can only guess how long this would take with discs.
• Various considerations to consider when changing a flat/ wheel in a hurry.  I saw the various acts of drama that a number of riders and their mechanics had to go through when replacing a wheel during the recent GT's and classics races. Its great when a spare bike is ready for you when racing but not for us normal riders who have to struggle next to the side of the road. Quick releases rule here.
• This includes the risks of bending the rotor disc when struggling to get the wheel out and the closing of the calipers when a wheel is removed for travelling. 
• The incessantly annoying squeal of the brakes when being applied. 
• Lastly, the need to change ones existing wheels when changing to discs. I was not prepared to sell five sets to now buy new ones.

The main 'for' reason for discs is stated to be the improved braking performance. Various comparison tests by a number of publications and bicycle sites have been performed and most agree that there is a slight improvement for carbon wheels in the rain, not so much in the dry. But dare I say that for 99% of us this increased performance is not required, unless you go 2-3 times a year to Europe and race down the various mountain passes in the rain. Even so, the four major WT teams Ineos, Jumbo Visma, UAE and Sunweb are all still choosing to ride with rim brakes. The performance of the newer direct mounts is not that far of that of discs.

Currently the score for the last six Grand Tours is : Rims Brakes 6 - Disc Brakes 0 !

 

Yes, there is a certain visual  'cool' factor with disc brakes but is that enough to fall into the bike/ group set manufacturers marketing trap that something that has worked for decades is suddenly not good enough anymore?

Sounds like you've never used disk brakes before, either as a rider or mechanic. They are easy to install and align, they work brilliantly and the lever feel, without that cable rub in a sheath, is superb. If i was in the market for a new road bike I'd not want anything else.

[Eugene]

Well, ****!

 

https://www.cyclelab.com/products/bikes/road-bikes/carbon-road-bikes?sort=high-low

 

I woulda called those R60k - R100k rim brake bikes high end, but I guess I'm just slumming it.

 

It's worse, these clowns are selling entry level frames at R80k that are rim brake

 

https://www.asgthestore.co.za/product-category/bikes/road-bikes/

I said there aren't many, I didn't say there weren't any.