947 Ride Joburg

[Furbz]

13 minutes ago, Dexter-morgan said:

on a separate point, how clean and neat was Kyalami track! and All those nice cars!!

if they opened up training at the track again i'd be a very happy man

[Dexter-morgan]

1 minute ago, Furbz said:

if they opened up training at the track again i'd be a very happy man

Me too, I will pay good money to train safely.

[Vetplant]

44 minutes ago, ouzo said:

#cancelcones

Can we please get the terminology right, before Cones are targeted unfairly. That was not a cone, it was a Traffic Delineator

#WordsMatter

[Max Headroom]

1 hour ago, JA-Q001 said:

The lead car and driver is supplied by the organiser, not CSA. 
 

Yes, a shortcut and advantage was had by taking the incorrect route. Instead of climbing over a total blockage, the correct thing to do would be to turn around and go back to where you went off course. This is the same rule in all these types of sport. 
 

In the rules it states that its your responsibility to know the route. It was on the website, the gpx was emailed and there are enough places that indicate which way around you should go. Sometimes the lead vehicles do deviate from the route, especially where its dangerous to have a vehicle on the same part as the cyclist. 
 

If her manager was there, why did he not correct them? And Im sorry, her manager does not understand road cycling and is not putting her in a better light in my eyes.

It is a **** situation, but if you listen to Ashleighs interview, where she stated that there was confusion, because before Kyalami the gap was 1:30 and after it was 3:30. A 2min advantage is not a small advantage, especially taking in mind that Ash finished les than a minute behind her.

Congrats to her for taking the chance and going early, but it was too big a mistake to ignore.

Agree 100 %

If you have to climb over 'danger tape' across the road - you know you are wrong. I have cycled for many years and been part of groups going the wrong way road and mtb. When you realise you are off route or find tape blocking your route, you know to turn back. Even in major races and tours in Europe we have seen confusion and even Marshall miss direct riders.

Yup it will pss you off, but you can't keep going a different route and expect to be rewarded.

[Danger Dassie]

1 hour ago, JA-Q001 said:

The lead car and driver is supplied by the organiser, not CSA. 
 

Yes, a shortcut and advantage was had by taking the incorrect route. Instead of climbing over a total blockage, the correct thing to do would be to turn around and go back to where you went off course. This is the same rule in all these types of sport. 
 

In the rules it states that its your responsibility to know the route. It was on the website, the gpx was emailed and there are enough places that indicate which way around you should go. Sometimes the lead vehicles do deviate from the route, especially where its dangerous to have a vehicle on the same part as the cyclist. 
 

If her manager was there, why did he not correct them? And Im sorry, her manager does not understand road cycling and is not putting her in a better light in my eyes.

It is a **** situation, but if you listen to Ashleighs interview, where she stated that there was confusion, because before Kyalami the gap was 1:30 and after it was 3:30. A 2min advantage is not a small advantage, especially taking in mind that Ash finished les than a minute behind her.

Congrats to her for taking the chance and going early, but it was too big a mistake to ignore.

Accurate and fair. It's a collective stuff up and the team manager really should have made a better call as well and pulled the commissaire. The moment a rider needs to dismount and step over barrier tape should raise alarm bells. DO NOT continue racing.

From the footage it looks like the cones were blown over, these have those flat feet that should be secured with a sandbag/weight. Especially considering the wind earlier in the day. Organisers/CSA need to answer for the oversight as well as the lead car and bike marshall lack of comms. 

The straw argument about other seeded groups doing the same thing. The difference is that outside of elite uci categories there aren't financial implications. Fun riders, different story and in the scheme of things not an issue beyond timing. In fact overall the feedback from the average participants has been exceptionally good this year. 

As an aside, the prize money was increased by organisers and of equal payout for the elites, 200k is not small change. So everyone really should have been sharper.

Should Pallant be declared the winner, imho, no. The finishing time splits make that clear and the podium stands.
Was it handled badly by officials, absolutely and there must be further transparency here, even if to ensure this kind of embarrassment doesn't occur again.
Should there be some compensation, likely, but hard to say because arguably, that should be shouldered equally between the organisation, federation and team management. Pallant has already taken more than a fair share of the penalty. 

In hindsight a time penalty should have been awarded, but thats the beauty of hindsight. It's a shame that this incident casts a bit of a shadow over an otherwise successful event. Hope to see her back next year and taking the fight to the peloton. 
 

[Ashchest]

1 hour ago, Clint S said:

Does anyone know how to check batch position in results?

 

Would also like to know - I  don't see any

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, Clint S said:

Does anyone know how to check batch position in results?

 

 

11 minutes ago, Ashchest said:

Would also like to know - I  don't see any

You can only see the age group category you were in, if open seeded. I started in VD, but my category result shows in Open 40-49.

 

[Frosty]

Click on advanced in the search to bring up the Search by Category option.

[J Wakefield]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

ag crap man. it's not a navigation race. here's also in the rules.

if you're following the lead car and it goes "off course" do you assume it has got lost or the route has changed??

 

the only way to sort this out was immediately. they had a time gap. restore it after kyalami to what it was. but that would require people to know what was going on. not having marshals in the first place means they didn't have ducks in a row to start with.

this took place 43km into a 97km race, not even halfway.

 

 

• The routes will be as supplied and participants must familiarise themselves with the route they are riding. The Organising Committee reserves the right to alter the routes in accordance with safety, traffic, construction or other constraints. No protest relating to deviation will be entertained.

One would think that the lead car would know the route. 

But here we are. 

Its typical in SA road races for lead cars to go wrong. Its actually pathetic and this is not even a CSA person, its the Organiser of the event. 

I feel (and me only) that Emma was done wrong but it is what it is. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by J Wakefield

[DIPSLICK]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

ag crap man. it's not a navigation race. here's also in the rules.

if you're following the lead car and it goes "off course" do you assume it has got lost or the route has changed??

 

the only way to sort this out was immediately. they had a time gap. restore it after kyalami to what it was. but that would require people to know what was going on. not having marshals in the first place means they didn't have ducks in a row to start with.

this took place 43km into a 97km race, not even halfway.

 

 

• The routes will be as supplied and participants must familiarise themselves with the route they are riding. The Organising Committee reserves the right to alter the routes in accordance with safety, traffic, construction or other constraints. No protest relating to deviation will be entertained.

Life is not fair, but that last sentence MAN that is clear as it gets

NO PROTEST RELATING TO DEVIATION WILL BE ENTERTAINED 

would I be pisssed off 4SURE 

but if I ever was at that end of the spear I WOULD CHECK RECHECK, hell I would do a drive around to recce the route

[Gr3mlin131]

11 minutes ago, DIPSLICK said:

Life is not fair, but that last sentence MAN that is clear as it gets

NO PROTEST RELATING TO DEVIATION WILL BE ENTERTAINED 

would I be pisssed off 4SURE 

but if I ever was at that end of the spear I WOULD CHECK RECHECK, hell I would do a drive around to recce the route

And then the route changed at the last moment due to the bad weather? This has happened. I would not have thought to go through the cones and not follow the car at that point. Bad luck for her into bumbling by the organisers, 

[Shebeen]

30 minutes ago, J Wakefield said:

One would think that the lead car would know the route. 

But here we are. 

Its typical in SA road races for lead cars to go wrong. Its actually pathetic and this is not even a CSA person, its the Organiser of the event. 

I feel (and me only) that Emma was done wrong but it is what it is. 

had a look at the routemap

 

 

green is expected route, orange is the deviation to to following lead vehicle.

 

it is quite a bit shorter, even taking the stops and confusion into account.

 

BUT all the blame is all on the organiser for

A)not having a marshall at this point

B)not having secured cones/candy tape/barriers into this.

C)not having a lead vehicle ahead of the route to make sure all is well.

 

Emma got shafted here, if she got a 2 min "gap" by taking this unexpected shortcut and still stayed outfront then for 50km, then she wins it for me.

 

[gtr1]

3 hours ago, Popit said:

Sid , I hear what you are saying , however , Emma passed us ( Vets55 - 59 ) in the suburbs just befor Braam Fisher drive  , The next ladies only passed me ( I was dropped) at the very top of Jan Smuts .... No way they were catching her in the last 15km . 

 

I think you have the wrong riders. The situation with Emma happened in Kyalami with the lead 55-59 bunch. We entered Kyalami ahead of her. That cone was in the same place, yet we all went left. No confusion. As we were about to exit the race track, she had just turned around in front of us and was getting going again. We were all surprised where she had come from, as she had never passed us, but was now racing next to, behind, in front of us. 

She entered Kyalami with 1 minute 7 second gap. Exited with over 3 minute gap. Unfair advantage.

 

Her fault ?? Possibly not. But unfair on the final race result, definately.

 

When she went over the barrier, her, her team management, lead car etc, all knew they had gone wrong. Yet not 1 of them admitted the mistake, allowed the race to continue, and even accepted the win.  So is that right ?????  They hoped they had got away with it.

[Shebeen]

35 minutes ago, DIPSLICK said:

Life is not fair, but that last sentence MAN that is clear as it gets

NO PROTEST RELATING TO DEVIATION WILL BE ENTERTAINED 

would I be pisssed off 4SURE 

but if I ever was at that end of the spear I WOULD CHECK RECHECK, hell I would do a drive around to recce the route

you've missed a big point here. they didn't change the route officially - that's what this is referring to. They just put barriers in it, left them unattended and they blew over, even confusing their own lead vehicle.

[Eldron]

We'll never know who the "real" winner is because we didn't get a fair race.

Solo breakaways that last 85% of the race seldom survive to the end. A 2 minute advantage at the halfway mark certainly swings it in her favour though. 

Moral victory but legal loss in my opinion.

[bleedToWin]

22 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

you've missed a big point here. they didn't change the route officially - that's what this is referring to. They just put barriers in it, left them unattended and they blew over, even confusing their own lead vehicle.

Dipslick's point is that the traffic delineator and lead vehicle behaviour looks like an official route change and turning left would constitute protesting or ignoring officials.