Cape Town danger areas

[Skubarra]

47 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

Heard someone working on a little AI project that pulls all the nasty comments on those cycling videos on social media to create a database of businesses and people that cyclists can avoid. I would like not to do business with someone that celebrates cylists dying. 

Slippery slope that one, just because one person associated with a business or brand is a sadistic troll on social media doesn't mean the other people in that business share that stance. Can be counter-productive.

[Headshot]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

wow this got heated! It blows my mind how many cyclists can't reason the possibility that cyclists could maybe be part of the problem. The depressing thing is that they are unlikely to be part of the solution too.

No matter what is really done, I guess we will just escalate this thing until someone important like a top local high profile cyclist is taken out. Massive outcry and real positive steps could be a potential minor positive outcome to this tragedy...oh wait.

 

Speaking of things over a decade ago, here is the sentiment from a popular blogger (remember those?) on the Atlantic seaboard from 2011.  Could have been written last week.

 

 

 

All good and well but proof that cyclists got fined for violations has very little to do with the current spate of fatalities caused by very bad driving. 

I am not aware of any fatalities caused by cyclists running red lights, riding the wrong way up a road or otherwise. On the other hand cars running red lights or turning across the path of a rider account for many such accidents. The latter happened to me many years ago.

I think its a fallacy to presume that if cyclists always did precisely what the law requires , there would be fewer accidents and fatalities. 

 

[Pure Savage]

1 hour ago, Skubarra said:

Slippery slope that one, just because one person associated with a business or brand is a sadistic troll on social media doesn't mean the other people in that business share that stance. Can be counter-productive.

Those can be weeded out and would need some moderation. 

[Pure Savage]

48 minutes ago, Headshot said:

All good and well but proof that cyclists got fined for violations has very little to do with the current spate of fatalities caused by very bad driving. 

I am not aware of any fatalities caused by cyclists running red lights, riding the wrong way up a road or otherwise. On the other hand cars running red lights or turning across the path of a rider account for many such accidents. The latter happened to me many years ago.

I think its a fallacy to presume that if cyclists always did precisely what the law requires , there would be fewer accidents and fatalities. 

 

My biggest gripe, as if a drunk driver drives his car because a cyclist rode 2 abreast on a road. 

Getting murdered has nothing to do with how you rode your bike 3 months ago on constania nek. Drivers just need consequences or the petrol price needs to go to R55 per litre.

[Shebeen]

1 hour ago, Headshot said:

All good and well but proof that cyclists got fined for violations has very little to do with the current spate of fatalities caused by very bad driving. 

I am not aware of any fatalities caused by cyclists running red lights, riding the wrong way up a road or otherwise. On the other hand cars running red lights or turning across the path of a rider account for many such accidents. The latter happened to me many years ago.

I think its a fallacy to presume that if cyclists always did precisely what the law requires , there would be fewer accidents and fatalities. 

 

I've been around here long enough to know that it would be a complete waste of our time to try and reason with you that some cyclists riding like complete tjops is maybe not a good thing for cyclists in general.

[The Ouzo]

4 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

I've been around here long enough to know that it would be a complete waste of our time to try and reason with you that some cyclists riding like complete tjops is maybe not a good thing for cyclists in general.

its not a good thing for our reputation, but it does not give anyone the right to aim their 2 ton weapon at us.

Just the same as I dont have the right to aim a shotgun at the poophols revving the pistons out of their superbikes at the traffic light near my house at 2am.

[Headshot]

1 minute ago, Shebeen said:

I've been around here long enough to know that it would be a complete waste of our time to try and reason with you that some cyclists riding like complete tjops is maybe not a good thing for cyclists in general.

You're missing the point. I agree - cyclists should not ride like tjops. I try to avoid being a tjop and ride responsibly and single file etc etc and yet I have still been knocked off my bike by a negligent driver while riding along with right of way and had numerous close calls with drivers who simply drive dangerously, and I'm hardly on the road.

Empirical evidence therefore suggests that no matter how well you ride, you are still just as likely to be injured by a motorist. In fact when i was hit by a car, if I'd been in a big bunch occupying the whole road, the accident may not have occurred because the driver would have noticed the big bunch of bikes and not pulled out in front of them. 

Or are you saying that when cyclists ride like tjops and this puts drivers into a murderous rage they remain in for weeks or years and also affects their perception and driving ability leading to accidents? I'd have to disagree there too, because when I'm out driving and i encounter a tjop on a bike or several, it has no effect on my state of mind or driving ability other than a brief feeling of annoyance and embarrassment. 

[Shebeen]

4 minutes ago, Headshot said:

You're missing the point. I agree - cyclists should not ride like tjops. I try to avoid being a tjop and ride responsibly and single file etc etc and yet I have still been knocked off my bike by a negligent driver while riding along with right of way and had numerous close calls with drivers who simply drive dangerously, and I'm hardly on the road.

Empirical evidence therefore suggests that no matter how well you ride, you are still just as likely to be injured by a motorist. In fact when i was hit by a car, if I'd been in a big bunch occupying the whole road, the accident may not have occurred because the driver would have noticed the big bunch of bikes and not pulled out in front of them. 

not going to engage on this one, agree to disagree.

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Or are you saying that when cyclists ride like tjops and this puts drivers into a murderous rage they remain in for weeks or years and also affects their perception and driving ability leading to accidents?

holey moley, ok will continue down this path.

Yes. there is real rage and hatred against ALL cyclists. It's not just online, and it's definitely not just in south africa. And not all of these people are driving a car. they could have a direct influence as cops, lawmakers, policy decison makers etc etc. 

 

4 minutes ago, Headshot said:

 

I'd have to disagree there too, because when I'm out driving and i encounter a tjop on a bike or several, it has no effect on my state of mind or driving ability other than a brief feeling of annoyance and embarrassment. 

Not every acts and reacts like you, but I think you knew that already. 

 

[Headshot]

Yes. there is real rage and hatred against ALL cyclists. It's not just online, and it's definitely not just in south africa. And not all of these people are driving a car. they could have a direct influence as cops, lawmakers, policy decison makers etc etc. 

And yet  we are told that drivers are far better in many Euro countries and give cyclists space and consideration. Not sure what your point is here.  I think the nutters that hate cyclists would hate them no matter  how they ride. 

There is no statistical link I am aware of between bad behaviour by cyclists and the mortality rate on the road. The primary cause is the general bad driving that also leads to countless car on car and single vehicle accidents in SA on a daily basis.

[Paul Ruinaard]

5 hours ago, Shebeen said:

wow this got heated! It blows my mind how many cyclists can't reason the possibility that cyclists could maybe be part of the problem. The depressing thing is that they are unlikely to be part of the solution too.

No matter what is really done, I guess we will just escalate this thing until someone important like a top local high profile cyclist is taken out. Massive outcry and real positive steps could be a potential minor positive outcome to this tragedy...oh wait.

 

Speaking of things over a decade ago, here is the sentiment from a popular blogger (remember those?) on the Atlantic seaboard from 2011.  Could have been written last week.

 

 

 

Just FYI to your point Burry died 13 years ago.

[robbybzgo]

If we think about this carefully. What is the major reason why cyclists are hit while driving in the road:

1) Taxi drivers usually don't own the taxi they drive. They have a quota set by the owners of how much money they wants in their pocket each day. Therefore the driver drives at top speed where possible to drop off his load of passengers and return to the rank as soon as possible to repeat the process.

Drivers will also try and overtake other taxis on longer routes to get to pick up more passengers en route.

2) Drivers tend to lose focus on the road with cell phones, children in the car disturbing them, fiddling with the music or infotainment set up in the car or just generally losing focus on the road. (I can always remember an argument I had with an ex-girlfriend, while driving my car, who demanded that I look at her while we were arguing) She didn't last long.

3) Alcohol, drugs and late night party people who have hardly any control over their vehicles and wouldn't have the ability to swerve or miss a bunch of cyclist. This can also be due to the usual high speed they are travelling at.

4) SAPS and Metro Police used to work eight hour shifts - now they work twelve hour shifts. When I brought this up with a Brigadier he said that the Trade Unions would never go back to 8 hr shifts. The main reason is that when you work a 12 hour shift you get a longer time period off. In my opinion, no policeman/woman can be effective over a 12 hour period and that's why you see them strolling around shopping centres and goofing off.

Another memory is seeing a metro police Hi-ace full of members (10-12) parked off near a bank at around 9:30 am. They were waiting for over half an hour for this single member to complete his banking requirements. I'm unsure how many other banks they stopped off as to allow other members to get their business done and possibly draw cash for lunch.

An entire load of constables sitting around doing nothing for an hour or two before they are dropped off in their separate area.

The reason why there is increased crime levels an hour before the 6 am/pm shift change time is because the police have already left their posts to return to their HQ.

5) Monkey SEE Monkey DO, is an old expression, an idiom describing the act of imitating someone else’s actions, behavior, or habits without understanding the reasoning behind them, often resulting in mindless copying or repeating actions simply by observing them, regardless of whether those actions are wise or foolish. Often the thought behind this is: If they can do it, so can I.

My conclusion: if we don't have effect policing and there isn't effective enforcement then we will never solve this problem. We've got to start reeling in the bad habits but officers on the beat don't like to be effective and stand out, making their underperforming colleagues look bad.

As a kid in Westville I remember a traffic officer with the surname of Burns. He was all over the place all the time. You'd be guaranteed to see him three or four time a day patrolling around just on his own, a single officer. He'd visit school yards and check on bike licences. He ran a tight ship and everyone towed the line. (Oh, the good old days)

Edited April 14 by robbybzgo

[DJR]

8 hours ago, robbybzgo said:

............I remember a traffic officer with the surname of Burns. He was all over the place all the time. You'd be guaranteed to see him three or four time a day patrolling around just on his own, a single officer. He'd visit school yards and check on bike licences. He ran a tight ship and everyone towed the line. (Oh, the good old days)

Riversdale had one like that. He went by the name of Jan "Bike" ....... who saw and heard everything .......a bit like a mother just "knowing" when her kids are being naughty. Kind of scary too.

[Solly Moeng]

20 hours ago, Skubarra said:

Slippery slope that one, just because one person associated with a business or brand is a sadistic troll on social media doesn't mean the other people in that business share that stance. Can be counter-productive.

In that case, the conduct of that person must be brought to the attention of his employers and (s)he must be called to order, surely! You can't work for and be part of a business brand that uphold certain values - assuming they do - and go out there and behave like a blood thirsty monster wishing for others to be brought to harm.

The values you to proclaim to live by, at home and at work, do not stop applying when ou step out of the door.

Edited April 14 by Solly Moeng

[SoloCyclist]

You all forgetting the most important golden rule.......

Public holidays = No cycling in the "party areas""

Simple rule

The last 2 fatalities in CT were both around public holidays

[Danger Dassie]

37 minutes ago, SoloCyclist said:

You all forgetting the most important golden rule.......

Public holidays = No cycling in the "party areas""

Simple rule

The last 2 fatalities in CT were both around public holidays

Oh well, thats that then. 

[Paul Ruinaard]

2 hours ago, SoloCyclist said:

You all forgetting the most important golden rule.......

Public holidays = No cycling in the "party areas""

Simple rule

The last 2 fatalities in CT were both around public holidays

Hey but its your consitutional right to cycle wherever you want and in whatever time slots. And whatever happens the cyclists are right (even if wrong) and are protected by force fields of viruosity that will prevent any harm happening to them.

#feedingtrolls