W@nted Posted April 24 Posted April 24 I am still trying to understand/find the middle point between "you do not need to buy the R300k super road/MTB if you cannot afford it" and the bicycle industry going to sh*t. DieselnDust 1
W@nted Posted April 24 Posted April 24 (edited) I might be off topic, but putting the argument of electronic suspension etc on the new Spez Epic aside, if someone could please explain this one: And then convince me again why these prices are not the reason the industry is struggling? Edited April 24 by W@nted Underachiever, Headshot, DieselnDust and 1 other 4
DieselnDust Posted April 24 Posted April 24 30 minutes ago, lechatnoir said: if they charge 250k and people buy it, then the price point isn't wrong. sure they could charge less and likely have a greater turnover from that model, but where would the exclusivity be if they charged less? that perception has a trickle down benefit for their other models. but for stages though, none of that applies. their demise is collateral damage from a very broken industry The word sustainability comes to mind. over pricing may still result in continued sales but it is not sustainable in a declining market. This is were premium brands will always have an edge because “pedigree “
lechatnoir Posted April 24 Posted April 24 5 minutes ago, DieselnDust said: The word sustainability comes to mind. over pricing may still result in continued sales but it is not sustainable in a declining market. This is were premium brands will always have an edge because “pedigree “ you are spot on. but... this is an instance where people and money intersect... name one such case in history where such an event has ended well.
W@nted Posted April 24 Posted April 24 And I understand that not everyone needs to drive a Ferrari. But surely as the prices of these "superbkes" increase, the price increases trickle down all the way down to the lower models. A few years ago a mid/top end frame with a top end groupset was more within my reach financially. Thesedays not anymore. Just my opinion of someone cycling for the last 20 years though. Real sad bout stages though. DieselnDust, BigDL and Zebra 3
bleedToWin Posted April 24 Posted April 24 1 hour ago, _David_ said: We've done this before and was already boring then. 🙄 ChrisF, RustyHWR and Akon 2 1
_David_ Posted April 24 Posted April 24 The problem is expensive bikes can deter newcomers and stunt the growth of cycling. High prices make the sport seem exclusive, turning potential riders away and keeping the community small. Headshot, DieselnDust, nonky and 1 other 4
PregoRoll Posted April 24 Posted April 24 35 minutes ago, Irvin85 said: I bet you they do not give a rats ass about exclusivity, at the end of the day they just want to make money, so the model that they are currently using is based on manufacturing limited quantities and focusing on margins, or they can focus on volumes at a reduced margin. The thing is they need to find the sweet spot, otherwise they price themselves out of the market and end belly up. How much difference price wise is there really between a top end frame and the entry level carbon frame in manufacturing costs. they use the exact same mold but might be a better carbon. so maybe R1000 in manufacturing costs. It does not cost them more than R5-8k to manufacture a carbon frame at the scale that they are doing it. What is the manufacturing price difference between XTR and SLX? XTR might even be cheaper as they try to cut weight on it and take a knock on durability. R&D Costs? Marketing? Support Staff? Sponsored Athletes? That money has to come from somewhere ChrisF, Scott roy, Danger Dassie and 1 other 3 1
shaper Posted April 24 Author Posted April 24 25 minutes ago, DieselnDust said: That’s the China effect The China effect is yet to come I think... quietly they are jacking up their quality of frames which are now becoming UCI Approved at half the price, as well as opening distributor networks world wide for warranty etc. https://elvesbike.com/product.php?lm=8 as well as their wheels like Elite Wheels etc Wannabe 1
_David_ Posted April 24 Posted April 24 3 minutes ago, shaper said: The China effect is yet to come I think... quietly they are jacking up their quality of frames which are now becoming UCI Approved at half the price, as well as opening distributor networks world wide for warranty etc. https://elvesbike.com/product.php?lm=8 as well as their wheels like Elite Wheels etc China effect might come with predatory pricing — selling at below cost to kill off competitors like Amazon and Temu for example.
DieselnDust Posted April 24 Posted April 24 5 minutes ago, shaper said: The China effect is yet to come I think... quietly they are jacking up their quality of frames which are now becoming UCI Approved at half the price, as well as opening distributor networks world wide for warranty etc. https://elvesbike.com/product.php?lm=8 as well as their wheels like Elite Wheels etc Oh yes this is potentially an industry saviour but I wasn’t referring to this. I was referring the rapidly growing middle class in China that is quite brand conscious and looks to spend on brands like pinarello, colnago, Look , Parlee etc. That volume is keeping those boutique brands going. we established brands like rolls Royce , Ferrari , are making money hand over fist becssue while a recession is happening , the rich are immune and profit off of that recession. High prices bicycles are targeting those wallets but that’s a highly competitive market. back to stages, I suspect they were more a victim of being dependant on Shimano to supply their cranks to sell power meters . The exercise bikes and gym closures is a big factor but the power meter market needed them to produce their own crank or couple their on technology to something more transferable and generic. they have taken a hit with the crank recall, with the supply shortage post covid while there was a sales boom and now a down turn. They were just not well positioned to absorb these crests and troughs. Being more self sufficient could have saved them _David_, W@nted, shaper and 2 others 5
ChrisF Posted April 24 Posted April 24 10 minutes ago, _David_ said: The problem is expensive bikes can deter newcomers and stunt the growth of cycling. High prices make the sport seem exclusive, turning potential riders away and keeping the community small. Not sure if this is just an SA thing .... A friend rented a bike at Bloemendal .... got hooked on MTB. Bought a second hand HT .... I used a lot of my spares to fix that bike properly. Took him about 2 months to reach the point where he "needed" a full suspension .... despite me introducing him to @Me rida my bicycle and explaining to him that it is the RIDER, not the bike, yada yada .... Bought a full suspension off Bike Market .... this time I did not get involved in fixing it up .... Took about 3 or 4 months until he broke the budget to buy a brand spanking new Scott Spark full suspension .... Rode it HARD !! Lots of air time .... and could not (would not) understand why he had to keep taking it back to the dealer for the one suspension issue after the other. (my guess - he kept on bottoming it out with hard landings). Then winter came ... lekker om in die modder te speel .... Two extreme mud events and the bike took a serious hammering, all this before the bike had even reached 1 000km. He refused to pay for a true strip down and rebuild .... not surprisingly a few components have since seen early failure. Currently hanging on the wall as he cant get spares for the freebody, and wont pay up for a new freebody .... So a nice frame hanging on the wall, and no cycling .... Sorry, back to the point .... is this an SA thing where "we have to" progress to the latest and greatest" at the expense of our budget ? His version of this "expensive hobby" may well put people off MTB ... while in reality that 2nd hand full suss could still have been serving him WELL, and the sport could have been relatively affordable .... Me rida my bicycle, BigDL and BrentCGP 3
DieselnDust Posted April 24 Posted April 24 15 minutes ago, ChrisF said: Not sure if this is just an SA thing .... A friend rented a bike at Bloemendal .... got hooked on MTB. Bought a second hand HT .... I used a lot of my spares to fix that bike properly. Took him about 2 months to reach the point where he "needed" a full suspension .... despite me introducing him to @Me rida my bicycle and explaining to him that it is the RIDER, not the bike, yada yada .... Bought a full suspension off Bike Market .... this time I did not get involved in fixing it up .... Took about 3 or 4 months until he broke the budget to buy a brand spanking new Scott Spark full suspension .... Rode it HARD !! Lots of air time .... and could not (would not) understand why he had to keep taking it back to the dealer for the one suspension issue after the other. (my guess - he kept on bottoming it out with hard landings). Then winter came ... lekker om in die modder te speel .... Two extreme mud events and the bike took a serious hammering, all this before the bike had even reached 1 000km. He refused to pay for a true strip down and rebuild .... not surprisingly a few components have since seen early failure. Currently hanging on the wall as he cant get spares for the freebody, and wont pay up for a new freebody .... So a nice frame hanging on the wall, and no cycling .... Sorry, back to the point .... is this an SA thing where "we have to" progress to the latest and greatest" at the expense of our budget ? His version of this "expensive hobby" may well put people off MTB ... while in reality that 2nd hand full suss could still have been serving him WELL, and the sport could have been relatively affordable .... Well right here in bikehub land we keep telling people that longer lower slacker is better and to stay off those murderous 69 degree HA monsters. we fulfill our own prophecies here. Just get people out on bikes should be the objective Jako De Wet, Me rida my bicycle, Jeepdude and 5 others 6 2
Showtime Posted April 24 Posted April 24 (edited) 52 minutes ago, DieselnDust said: Well right here in bikehub land we keep telling people that longer lower slacker is better and to stay off those murderous 69 degree HA monsters. we fulfill our own prophecies here. Just get people out on bikes should be the objective Definitely, those 2 year old 29er dual suspensions are not safe on the same roads and trails that were perfectly fine on 26 inch GT Zaskars with 71° head angles. Edited April 24 by Showtime SilverRider, Me rida my bicycle, ChrisF and 7 others 4 1 5
Jakkals. Posted April 24 Posted April 24 Colnago’s investment in Pogi paying off. Spez needs Julian to start winning races. Canyon had a backup plan when El Bala left, MvdP. Jeepdude 1
Shebeen Posted April 24 Posted April 24 14 hours ago, shaper said: Looks like Stages power meters going to bankruptcy https://escapecollective.com/stages-cycling-lays-off-entire-workforce/ I can see the power meter market being incredibly cut-throat going forward. The technology has matured, the market has stabilised and it's ripe for a price war. Problem is that most people who need a pm have one already, and they paid a lot for their current unit. Trying to get them to upgrade or increase the market is only possible with pricing getting slashed. You saw a similar thing with HRM watches and GPS units, but the market could handle both budget options and higher priced premium products. Power meters can only add convenience and accuracy going forward, and that will plateau (if not already). In 3 years I see half the players left, charging half the price. (the tech is exploding in sailing, but the pricing is still bonkers. https://theyachtrigger.com/cyclops-smart-link/#smartlink-products) Marcv, DieselnDust and ChrisF 3
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