Dopers suck

[Jakkals.]

The problem at schoolboy level is more than steriods...its mothers who dose their sick children with beta 2 meds and then go on to fail the doping tests.

[Jewbacca]

55 minutes ago, Koos Likkewaan 2 said:

Having been involved in schoolboy rugby for many years, I can safely and with some confidence/evidence say that this is not even close to being a Brakpan problem as it is a "fancy" school problem.

I think you are misreading the post.

I am saying that 'advanced doping' has moved on so far from roids and injections that those who do that these days are stuck in the past or not able to do better

[Shebeen]

1 hour ago, dave303e said:

The biggest single improvement in athletic capability in the last 10 years has been running shoes... I think there is only 1 running record that has not been broken since the introduction of carbon plated running shoes. From 100m to 100miles ladies and mens records.

Very very incorrect, maybe for distance running.

men's records are all older up to 5000m, barring Wayde @ Rio. Take out cheptegei and it holds to 10 000m too. Higher distances yes, they have been broken more recently there.

Womens' records for sprints might as well be thrown away, all from the 80s still. Not even a testosterone fuelled Semenya could come close.

Longer distances yes, they are broken in last ten years, as they should be. 

[Underachiever]

1 hour ago, Koos Likkewaan 2 said:

Stadig nou ! 

I live in the first one, work in the second one, and grew up in the third one !

You need to get out more, once your visa is approved!!!!

BTW, I also live in the surrounding area!!!!

[dave303e]

9 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Very very incorrect, maybe for distance running.

men's records are all older up to 5000m, barring Wayde @ Rio. Take out cheptegei and it holds to 10 000m too. Higher distances yes, they have been broken more recently there.

Womens' records for sprints might as well be thrown away, all from the 80s still. Not even a testosterone fuelled Semenya could come close.

Longer distances yes, they are broken in last ten years, as they should be. 

apologies, I was wrong. Ya seems like it was all the road running records outside of the athletics track. Still Bolt has been very vocal about shoes having an unfair advantage leading up to the last Olympics...

[b-rad]

1 hour ago, dave303e said:

comes back to money, 50% scholarship for rugby at a fancy school is R150k a year which is nearly triple minimum wage for a year...

And the ones getting “pocket money” from the franchises whilst at school 

[FootballingCyclist]

Not so much doping, But still cheating nonetheless is the matter of age cheating, Most notably in Football in our country and I've experienced it 1st hand.

In 03/04 I played for the Cape Town Academy, at the time which was the "breakaway" from the FC Fortune club after Quinton Fortune and his agent and club chairman Colin Gie's infamous fallout, So we were essentially the Man United academy is SA if you want to call it that, Very similar to the Ajax CT/Ajax Amsterdam link. Anyway, Because we were a new club to the association, we were put into the Promotion league and not the Super League against the other academy clubs like Ajax CT and Hellenic etc back then, Our 1st few games we were winning 11-0, 17-0, 15-0 etc and even beat Meadows 21-0. Anyway we had this 1 "kid" playing for us we called "Shoes" at the time, He was short (no red flags), but built like a tank (amber flag as we were u17 so 14,15,16yr olds). We were clearly too strong for the league but they refused to move us, we then played in a knock-out game where all leagues are combined and we played vs Tableview who were in the super league above us, Now if there are old ballies who can moan, Tableview possibly take the cake along with Edgemead LOL, Anyway We beat them comfortably, I think it was 7-0. After the game their coach came into our dressing room to ask to speak to Shoes, he took his name on his players card, ID number and asked what school he attended. On the Monday the Tableview coach went to the school "Shoes" attended and asked the Principal if a learner by that name with that ID number attended the school and the Principal said yes. He then called the kid to the office and a small, scrawny little kid came in. The coach showed the kid a pic of Shoes and asked if he knew him to which he replied and said it was his cousin who was about 22/23. When they asked the kid how shoes got hold of his birth certificate as you need it to register, the kid said that his birth certificate was missing for a long time and that shoes had possibly stolen it from their house. Turns out shoes was 23. We immediately had all our points deducted and only just managed to survive relegation at the end of the season even though we were unbeaten.

That's just one of MANY cases I experienced in my career, and it happened in cricket too because if a kid comes to trials and brings a birth certificate, what can you do as birth certificates don't have pics attached!!

[Jewbacca]

14 minutes ago, FootballingCyclist said:

Not so much doping, But still cheating nonetheless is the matter of age cheating, Most notably in Football in our country and I've experienced it 1st hand.

In 03/04 I played for the Cape Town Academy, at the time which was the "breakaway" from the FC Fortune club after Quinton Fortune and his agent and club chairman Colin Gie's infamous fallout, So we were essentially the Man United academy is SA if you want to call it that, Very similar to the Ajax CT/Ajax Amsterdam link. Anyway, Because we were a new club to the association, we were put into the Promotion league and not the Super League against the other academy clubs like Ajax CT and Hellenic etc back then, Our 1st few games we were winning 11-0, 17-0, 15-0 etc and even beat Meadows 21-0. Anyway we had this 1 "kid" playing for us we called "Shoes" at the time, He was short (no red flags), but built like a tank (amber flag as we were u17 so 14,15,16yr olds). We were clearly too strong for the league but they refused to move us, we then played in a knock-out game where all leagues are combined and we played vs Tableview who were in the super league above us, Now if there are old ballies who can moan, Tableview possibly take the cake along with Edgemead LOL, Anyway We beat them comfortably, I think it was 7-0. After the game their coach came into our dressing room to ask to speak to Shoes, he took his name on his players card, ID number and asked what school he attended. On the Monday the Tableview coach went to the school "Shoes" attended and asked the Principal if a learner by that name with that ID number attended the school and the Principal said yes. He then called the kid to the office and a small, scrawny little kid came in. The coach showed the kid a pic of Shoes and asked if he knew him to which he replied and said it was his cousin who was about 22/23. When they asked the kid how shoes got hold of his birth certificate as you need it to register, the kid said that his birth certificate was missing for a long time and that shoes had possibly stolen it from their house. Turns out shoes was 23. We immediately had all our points deducted and only just managed to survive relegation at the end of the season even though we were unbeaten.

That's just one of MANY cases I experienced in my career, and it happened in cricket too because if a kid comes to trials and brings a birth certificate, what can you do as birth certificates don't have pics attached!!

The mysterious case of Shahid Afridi comes to mind.

I played rugby against some seriously dodgy 'kids' from the platteland who definitely age doped.

The common denominator? Humans. 

Whether they are driving, sportsing, riding bikes, being married, doing taxes.... a vast majority of humans will inevitably cheat and be rubbish 

It always amuses me when people act surprised

[devvydoesdonuts]

21 minutes ago, FootballingCyclist said:

Not so much doping, But still cheating nonetheless is the matter of age cheating, Most notably in Football in our country and I've experienced it 1st hand.

In 03/04 I played for the Cape Town Academy, at the time which was the "breakaway" from the FC Fortune club after Quinton Fortune and his agent and club chairman Colin Gie's infamous fallout, So we were essentially the Man United academy is SA if you want to call it that, Very similar to the Ajax CT/Ajax Amsterdam link. Anyway, Because we were a new club to the association, we were put into the Promotion league and not the Super League against the other academy clubs like Ajax CT and Hellenic etc back then, Our 1st few games we were winning 11-0, 17-0, 15-0 etc and even beat Meadows 21-0. Anyway we had this 1 "kid" playing for us we called "Shoes" at the time, He was short (no red flags), but built like a tank (amber flag as we were u17 so 14,15,16yr olds). We were clearly too strong for the league but they refused to move us, we then played in a knock-out game where all leagues are combined and we played vs Tableview who were in the super league above us, Now if there are old ballies who can moan, Tableview possibly take the cake along with Edgemead LOL, Anyway We beat them comfortably, I think it was 7-0. After the game their coach came into our dressing room to ask to speak to Shoes, he took his name on his players card, ID number and asked what school he attended. On the Monday the Tableview coach went to the school "Shoes" attended and asked the Principal if a learner by that name with that ID number attended the school and the Principal said yes. He then called the kid to the office and a small, scrawny little kid came in. The coach showed the kid a pic of Shoes and asked if he knew him to which he replied and said it was his cousin who was about 22/23. When they asked the kid how shoes got hold of his birth certificate as you need it to register, the kid said that his birth certificate was missing for a long time and that shoes had possibly stolen it from their house. Turns out shoes was 23. We immediately had all our points deducted and only just managed to survive relegation at the end of the season even though we were unbeaten.

That's just one of MANY cases I experienced in my career, and it happened in cricket too because if a kid comes to trials and brings a birth certificate, what can you do as birth certificates don't have pics attached!!

Speaking of age doping, I lost out because of this, while I was at school doing athletics. The coaches would just let anyone run in an age group because they were in the grade of what that age group was but yet they were always two to three years older. You let them know about it but nothing was done, so you would waste your time training just to narrowly be beaten by someone that comes into the trials and lose out on a spot that you worked so hard for. 

[FootballingCyclist]

26 minutes ago, devvydoesdonuts said:

Speaking of age doping, I lost out because of this, while I was at school doing athletics. The coaches would just let anyone run in an age group because they were in the grade of what that age group was but yet they were always two to three years older. You let them know about it but nothing was done, so you would waste your time training just to narrowly be beaten by someone that comes into the trials and lose out on a spot that you worked so hard for. 

Yep this EXACT thing happens at schoolboy rugby EVERY year.

[Yyyy]

1 hour ago, FootballingCyclist said:

Not so much doping, But still cheating nonetheless is the matter of age cheating, Most notably in Football in our country and I've experienced it 1st hand.

In 03/04 I played for the Cape Town Academy, at the time which was the "breakaway" from the FC Fortune club after Quinton Fortune and his agent and club chairman Colin Gie's infamous fallout, So we were essentially the Man United academy is SA if you want to call it that, Very similar to the Ajax CT/Ajax Amsterdam link. Anyway, Because we were a new club to the association, we were put into the Promotion league and not the Super League against the other academy clubs like Ajax CT and Hellenic etc back then, Our 1st few games we were winning 11-0, 17-0, 15-0 etc and even beat Meadows 21-0. Anyway we had this 1 "kid" playing for us we called "Shoes" at the time, He was short (no red flags), but built like a tank (amber flag as we were u17 so 14,15,16yr olds). We were clearly too strong for the league but they refused to move us, we then played in a knock-out game where all leagues are combined and we played vs Tableview who were in the super league above us, Now if there are old ballies who can moan, Tableview possibly take the cake along with Edgemead LOL, Anyway We beat them comfortably, I think it was 7-0. After the game their coach came into our dressing room to ask to speak to Shoes, he took his name on his players card, ID number and asked what school he attended. On the Monday the Tableview coach went to the school "Shoes" attended and asked the Principal if a learner by that name with that ID number attended the school and the Principal said yes. He then called the kid to the office and a small, scrawny little kid came in. The coach showed the kid a pic of Shoes and asked if he knew him to which he replied and said it was his cousin who was about 22/23. When they asked the kid how shoes got hold of his birth certificate as you need it to register, the kid said that his birth certificate was missing for a long time and that shoes had possibly stolen it from their house. Turns out shoes was 23. We immediately had all our points deducted and only just managed to survive relegation at the end of the season even though we were unbeaten.

That's just one of MANY cases I experienced in my career, and it happened in cricket too because if a kid comes to trials and brings a birth certificate, what can you do as birth certificates don't have pics attached!!

but what if Shoes identified as a 16 year old

[Yyyy]

1 hour ago, FootballingCyclist said:

Not so much doping, But still cheating nonetheless is the matter of age cheating, Most notably in Football in our country and I've experienced it 1st hand.

In 03/04 I played for the Cape Town Academy, at the time which was the "breakaway" from the FC Fortune club after Quinton Fortune and his agent and club chairman Colin Gie's infamous fallout, So we were essentially the Man United academy is SA if you want to call it that, Very similar to the Ajax CT/Ajax Amsterdam link. Anyway, Because we were a new club to the association, we were put into the Promotion league and not the Super League against the other academy clubs like Ajax CT and Hellenic etc back then, Our 1st few games we were winning 11-0, 17-0, 15-0 etc and even beat Meadows 21-0. Anyway we had this 1 "kid" playing for us we called "Shoes" at the time, He was short (no red flags), but built like a tank (amber flag as we were u17 so 14,15,16yr olds). We were clearly too strong for the league but they refused to move us, we then played in a knock-out game where all leagues are combined and we played vs Tableview who were in the super league above us, Now if there are old ballies who can moan, Tableview possibly take the cake along with Edgemead LOL, Anyway We beat them comfortably, I think it was 7-0. After the game their coach came into our dressing room to ask to speak to Shoes, he took his name on his players card, ID number and asked what school he attended. On the Monday the Tableview coach went to the school "Shoes" attended and asked the Principal if a learner by that name with that ID number attended the school and the Principal said yes. He then called the kid to the office and a small, scrawny little kid came in. The coach showed the kid a pic of Shoes and asked if he knew him to which he replied and said it was his cousin who was about 22/23. When they asked the kid how shoes got hold of his birth certificate as you need it to register, the kid said that his birth certificate was missing for a long time and that shoes had possibly stolen it from their house. Turns out shoes was 23. We immediately had all our points deducted and only just managed to survive relegation at the end of the season even though we were unbeaten.

That's just one of MANY cases I experienced in my career, and it happened in cricket too because if a kid comes to trials and brings a birth certificate, what can you do as birth certificates don't have pics attached!!

but what if Shoes identified as a 16 year old

[Frosty]

6 minutes ago, devvydoesdonuts said:

Speaking of age doping, I lost out because of this, while I was at school doing athletics. The coaches would just let anyone run in an age group because they were in the grade of what that age group was but yet they were always two to three years older. You let them know about it but nothing was done, so you would waste your time training just to narrowly be beaten by someone that comes into the trials and lose out on a spot that you worked so hard for. 

Dr Ross Tucker spoke about this in a podcast or two back. Primary school kids born in the same year, but physically different due to being born in different months, eg. January vs December of the same year. No so much cheating, but just unfair to the kids that are less developed. They miss out on opportunities, and generally lose interest.

Another scenario is when parents “push” their kids to do better, at the expense of enjoyment. Could that result in going down the performance enhancing pathway to try keep up?

[devvydoesdonuts]

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

Dr Ross Tucker spoke about this in a podcast or two back. Primary school kids born in the same year, but physically different due to being born in different months, eg. January vs December of the same year. No so much cheating, but just unfair to the kids that are less developed. They miss out on opportunities, and generally lose interest.

Another scenario is when parents “push” their kids to do better, at the expense of enjoyment. Could that result in going down the performance enhancing pathway to try keep up?

Losing to older kids racing in my age category was one of the interests in losing interest, the second was the injuries from pushing and working so hard to try to beat them.

[Scary Rider]

13 hours ago, dave303e said:

It's worse than that. Craven week was the only schoolboy rugby festival/games where testing was done and the one year half of all rugby doping bans came from that single tournament.

As for the gene splicing, the same way you can breed a dog or a cow or a horse to perform better. Naturally it is happening in a multitude of sports. How many top runners breed with other runners, how many triathletes, same for cycling, same for a lot of sports. Mainly due to social trends where that is who they interact with. But you just need to reproduce that a few generations in a row and you should legally see a performance increase. I can see it with our cows, the fiddling done with who breeds with what and the quality of animal and the traits around it go through the roof. Same goes for the working jack russels bread on the farm. Certain lines make the most amazing pets, other lines bread for hunting purposes are the reason we don't have rats or snakes and the pigeon population is dwindling.

The biggest single improvement in athletic capability in the last 10 years has been running shoes... I think there is only 1 running record that has not been broken since the introduction of carbon plated running shoes. From 100m to 100miles ladies and mens records.

In the 50 years before the year 2000 the biggest advance in livestock breeding was Artificial Insemination (AI), but the last 20 years it has dramatically improved with the use of Genomics.

You don't have to think about breeding choices anymore and it is quite possible to predict at a very early age how the offspring of certain cows and bulls will perform. 

[FootballingCyclist]

13 hours ago, Scary Rider said:

In the 50 years before the year 2000 the biggest advance in livestock breeding was Artificial Insemination (AI), but the last 20 years it has dramatically improved with the use of Genomics.

You don't have to think about breeding choices anymore and it is quite possible to predict at a very early age how the offspring of certain cows and bulls will perform. 

Those ones in Pretoria are sukkeling though a bietjie ne...