Held up at gunpoint on the Spruit this morning - 7/11/2019

[MudLark]

 

 

Ah sorry you can't shoot criminals in SA anymore they have more rights than victims.

 

Zero consequence for these actions equals lawless society

Actually, you can. The police are remarkably unsympathetic towards criminals who get injured in self defence. Two incidents involving close friends will illustrate the point, both events having occurred in Johannesburg:

 

Incident 1: A good friend of mine shoots and kills an armed would-be hijacker in his driveway. I arrive shortly after while the deceased is still lying there. The police arrive. The local station commander calls the cop on the scene and says to him "Please congratulate Mr [my friend's name] on a job well done". They take the deceased away. End of story.

 

Incident 2: Five guys try to jump a friend of mine and his wife in their home late on a weekend evening. He shoots three of them. Two are dead, one is bleeding out. The police arrive. The one cop walks over to the wounded criminal and gives him a hefty kick in the ribs. The paramedics arrive. The police tell them to leave the wounded guy alone. Everyone sits on the lounge furniture having coffee while they wait for number three to expire. They take the three deceased away. Again, end of story.

 

I can quote other incidents too. But the point is that the police are fed up as well and in a clear self defence event, the odds of you having a problem with the police or the prosecution is very slim indeed. Issues only tend to arise when there's something pretty fishy going on.

 

Self-defence is not for everyone and submission is also a valid survival strategy. But if you do decide to go the self-defence route, there's no reason to be unduly worried about the legal consequences if you act in genuine self-defence.

 

But I have one question for one of the posters above: where on yourself and how do you carry the Glock?

[King_Crispy]

To add to the spruit.

Two friends new being Wayne(Kiwi) from Rapide got held up at gun and knife point this morning closer to Emmarentia

Dam this morning.

So it seems like spruit is going through the less popular phase that it did a few years ago.

Unless the authorities can blitz the place again.

Just so sad.

You have to be kidding me.

Him and Jo were chatting on Friday afternoon to me about this cr@p happening on the spruit.

I cannot believe it happened to him so soon after we talked about it

[MudLark]

You have to be kidding me.

Him and Jo were chatting on Friday afternoon to me about this cr@p happening on the spruit.

I cannot believe it happened to him so soon after we talked about it

It's a crying shame. The spruit is one of the really great rides around here.

[Cotic]

I also absolutely love the spruit.

Up to about a year ago if one greeted the local residents /vagrants they greeted back.

There was a balance and respect.

There seems to be a new crowd now and it's becoming a problem.

Perhaps a meeting with parkhurst cpf /saps on how to address this could be a option

[Bonus]

It's a crying shame. The spruit is one of the really great rides around here.

 

I used to park at either the Old Rose Pub, the Riverside shopping Centre or the car park opposite Fratellis - depending on who (if anyone) I was riding with, and where they wanted to meet.

 

In any case we'd generally head south first - and ride down as far as the bottom of Melville - then ride across the koppies to Ablerts Farm and then diagonally back across to the Botanical Gardens and continue north back up the Spruit - often going as far as Paulshof under the N1 freeway.

 

After the ride we'd stop for a beer and/or a Pizza before a short drive home.

 

To have a strip of recreational parkland - suitable for Walkers, Joggers and Bikers, adults and kiddies, that runs pretty much the entire length of the northern suburbs of Johannesburg - is an absolute gem worth treasuring. 

 

The scum that are stealing from members of the public who are using this area are stealing more than just your possessions. They are stealing your right to a way of life. Your right to use an enjoy a local municipal service that is part and parcel of where you live and what your taxes pay for.  

 

I hope that, one way or another, the problem can be stamped out and the public can use and enjoy this network of paths and trails the way I used to.

 

Good luck.

 

Bonus.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Bonus

[worriesnot]

I used to park at either the Old Rose Pub, the Riverside shopping Centre or the car park opposite Fratellis - depending on who (if anyone) I was riding with, and where they wanted to meet.

 

In any case we'd generally head south first - and ride down as far as the bottom of Melville - then ride across the koppies to Ablerts Farm and then diagonally back across to the Botanical Gardens and continue north back up the Spruit - often going as far as Paulshof under the N1 freeway.

 

After the ride we'd stop for a beer and/or a Pizza before a short drive home.

 

To have a strip of recreational parkland - suitable for Walkers, Joggers and Bikers, adults and kiddies, that runs pretty much the entire length of the northern suburbs of Johannesburg - is an absolute gem worth treasuring. 

 

The scum that are stealing from members of the public who are using this area are stealing more than just your possessions. They are stealing your right to a way of life. Your right to use an enjoy a local municipal service that is part and parcel of where you live and what your taxes pay for.  

 

I hope that, one way or another, the problem can be stamped out and the public can use and enjoy this network of paths and trails the way I used to.

 

Good luck.

 

Bonus.

 

I've been riding the Spruit on and off circa 1999 - at first just botanical gardens area while still at RAU; expanded more when sharing a flat living in Linden and more recently at least once a week in the last 8 years while living in the Parks - most of these rides I do alone and haven't had any close calls or felt threatened (very lucky I guess). Even commuting to Midrand, that with a partner though, from 2015 to Midrand once a week in warmer months. 

Been a few bouts of muggings throughout the years and really sad to see this recent "spree" popping up again. All the work Jozitrails are putting in really making it a popular outing for anyone wanting some R&R right on your doorstep. 

Sincerely hope this one is quickly nipped in the bud.

[Paul Ruinaard]

Wow - was going to ride up the spruit from the bottom this morning on an ebike as my usual route was interrupted by N Farm being closed for 94.7 ride but was warned about safety. I thought it would be a great ride as it would be about 65 km and a complete jol down on the ebike. 

 

I love riding alone when i choose to. So i would have been up there early.

 

Boy am i glad that i went in to the cradle instead.

 

I havent used the spruit in a bit and something just made me think twice about the safety....

 

What a disaster. I cant understand why the guys wouldn't take the bike as well. But at least a watch is less material

Edited November 10, 2019 by Paul Ruinaard

[scubes]

Well said. They are stealing our way of life.. and we must not let them. 

 

I don't have all the answers. 1st prize is a good govt to help eradicate poverty etc but the hate and greed is also there and well yeah. 2nd prize is effective policing but that ties in with good govt. In this country the haves have become a target for the have nots and it is out of hand. 

 

I used to park at either the Old Rose Pub, the Riverside shopping Centre or the car park opposite Fratellis - depending on who (if anyone) I was riding with, and where they wanted to meet.

 

In any case we'd generally head south first - and ride down as far as the bottom of Melville - then ride across the koppies to Ablerts Farm and then diagonally back across to the Botanical Gardens and continue north back up the Spruit - often going as far as Paulshof under the N1 freeway.

 

After the ride we'd stop for a beer and/or a Pizza before a short drive home.

 

To have a strip of recreational parkland - suitable for Walkers, Joggers and Bikers, adults and kiddies, that runs pretty much the entire length of the northern suburbs of Johannesburg - is an absolute gem worth treasuring. 

 

The scum that are stealing from members of the public who are using this area are stealing more than just your possessions. They are stealing your right to a way of life. Your right to use an enjoy a local municipal service that is part and parcel of where you live and what your taxes pay for.  

 

I hope that, one way or another, the problem can be stamped out and the public can use and enjoy this network of paths and trails the way I used to.

 

Good luck.

 

Bonus.

[Bonus]

Wow - was going to ride up the spruit from the bottom this morning on an ebike as my usual route was interrupted by N Farm being closed for 94.7 ride but was warned about safety. I thought it would be a great ride as it would be about 65 km and a complete jol down on the ebike. 

 

I love riding alone when i choose to. So i would have been up there early.

 

Boy am i glad that i went in to the cradle instead.

 

I havent used the spruit in a bit and something just made me think twice about the safety....

 

What a disaster. I cant understand why the guys wouldn't take the bike as well. But at least a watch is less material

Possibly a lucky choice.

[King_Crispy]

I also absolutely love the spruit.

Up to about a year ago if one greeted the local residents /vagrants they greeted back.

There was a balance and respect.

There seems to be a new crowd now and it's becoming a problem.

Perhaps a meeting with parkhurst cpf /saps on how to address this could be a option

I think I need to visit with an AR15

[BigDL]

I think I need to visit with an AR15

And do what?

[arabsandals]

Actually, you can. The police are remarkably unsympathetic towards criminals who get injured in self defence. Two incidents involving close friends will illustrate the point, both events having occurred in Johannesburg:

 

Incident 1: A good friend of mine shoots and kills an armed would-be hijacker in his driveway. I arrive shortly after while the deceased is still lying there. The police arrive. The local station commander calls the cop on the scene and says to him "Please congratulate Mr [my friend's name] on a job well done". They take the deceased away. End of story.

 

Incident 2: Five guys try to jump a friend of mine and his wife in their home late on a weekend evening. He shoots three of them. Two are dead, one is bleeding out. The police arrive. The one cop walks over to the wounded criminal and gives him a hefty kick in the ribs. The paramedics arrive. The police tell them to leave the wounded guy alone. Everyone sits on the lounge furniture having coffee while they wait for number three to expire. They take the three deceased away. Again, end of story.

 

I can quote other incidents too. But the point is that the police are fed up as well and in a clear self defence event, the odds of you having a problem with the police or the prosecution is very slim indeed. Issues only tend to arise when there's something pretty fishy going on.

 

Self-defence is not for everyone and submission is also a valid survival strategy. But if you do decide to go the self-defence route, there's no reason to be unduly worried about the legal consequences if you act in genuine self-defence.

 

But I have one question for one of the posters above: where on yourself and how do you carry the Glock?

Both of those stories are horrific. That is vigilantism and lawlessness. Not something commendable.

[Bonus]

Both of those stories are horrific. That is vigilantism and lawlessness. Not something commendable.

If 5 guys attack you and your wife in your home, and you shoot two of them, how is that vigilantism and not self defense?

[MudLark]

Both of those stories are horrific. That is vigilantism and lawlessness. Not something commendable.

They are indeed horrific. But they are neither vigilantism nor lawlessness, other than on the part of the criminals concerned. If someone imminently threatens your life with a deadky weapon - as was the case in both instances concerned - it is perfectly lawful to respond with deadly force. It is therefore entirely lawful behaviour. Which is exactly why the police took no further action in either instance.

 

As I said, self defence is not for everyone and submission is a perfectly valid survival strategy. I don't necessarily recommend the above courses of action; nor do I necessarily recommend submission; it's a matter of individual choice and may vary with circumstances; neither leads to any guaranteed outcome and both have associated risks. I was simply responding to the perception that one cannot act in self defence in such situations without risk of prosecution.

 

For what is it is worth, the right to act in self defence is one of the most ancient and universally recognised principles.

 

Personally, I think the best option is to be aware of what is happening around you and to avoid trouble. But sometimes in life trouble comes looking for you. And sometimes it's not possible to run away.

 

In closing I should perhaps add that in the first case, the individual concerned had his pregnant wife sitting in the car that was the object of the hijackers intentions. In both cases, a failure to act in self defence would have lead to any possible number of outcomes determined at the will of the criminals concerned. I'm curious to know: given a choice, what would *you* have done?

Edited November 11, 2019 by MudLark

[Mojoman]

Both of those stories are horrific. That is vigilantism and lawlessness. Not something commendable.

Terrible....I didn't sleep a wink last night thinking about those poor criminals....

[Uni]

If 5 guys attack you and your wife in your home, and you shoot two of them, how is that vigilantism and not self defense?

I think he's referring to the cops allowing a guy to bleed out rather than help.

 

Though I dont personally give a **** myself