mid vs Highend Mid vs High end vs Ultra High end

[James Dunn]

What Is the difference between High end bike and the Ultra high end bike? More on the trail and XC side of things
I know that going from entry level to mid level there can be loads of changed like better group sets, lighter  carbon seat/seatpost, lighter handelbars etc but once what makes a MTB go to R70k plus? 

Trying to wrap my head around what makes them cost so much. 



 

[fanievb]

What Is the difference between High end bike and the Ultra high end bike? More on the trail and XC side of things

I know that going from entry level to mid level there can be loads of changed like better group sets, lighter  carbon seat/seatpost, lighter handelbars etc but once what makes a MTB go to R70k plus? 

Trying to wrap my head around what makes them cost so much. 

 

 

 

 

 

that depends on how much money the marketing department spends, which then gets passed on to the consumer i.e. lighter, stiffer, faster etc.

[TNT1]

What Is the difference between High end bike and the Ultra high end bike? 

 

 

 

The price. Someone has to pay for all that marketing hype...

[TNT1]

that depends on how much money the marketing department spends, which then gets passed on to the consumer i.e. lighter, stiffer, faster etc.

Snap!

[Butterbean]

*GENERALLY -

 

There's the old saying that for bikes and parts, when it comes to light, strong, and cheap... You pick two...

 

While I think generally pricing has just gone absolutely apeshit and I can't justify a lot of my spend anymore, you're even really paying more for less weight, longer lasting parts (not always), and reliably high performance.

 

If you take Shimano for instance... XT in almost all ranges is said to be best balance between reliability, weight, and cost. You can spend more, and go lighter, but there's only so much reliability you can build into a featherweight part. Yes, lower down will ride just great, up to a point, but XT will be reliable, shift well, brake well, and never give up...

 

I do think you hit a ceiling tho, for mere mortals, where more money spent doesn't add much more than the satisfaction of having top end stuff... In the dual sus MTB market, that ceiling seems to be around 45-60k. The gap between a 25k and 45k mtb is pretty massive. The gap between 60k and 100k isn't as massive...

 

That ceiling is rising every year, blamed on a whole host of things. But at the end of the day, the market has proven to be happy to pay more for bike tyres than can tyres. We've believed it's more expensive to design a bicycle than a motorbike, and that somehow the liability is better... But that's our fault and you can't blame shareholders for wanting a return we're so willing to give... Look at how many 2019 tarmac appeared on the classifieds when the 2020 dropped. Okes out there are happy to drop mega bucks to have the latest and greatest...

 

But never forget that the pros will still beat you up and down on a makro bike... You still have to pedal the bike.

[porqui]

 what makes a MTB go to R70k plus? 

Trying to wrap my head around what makes them cost so much. 

 

 

 

 

R70k   ???

 

Cannondale 2021 Scalpel High Mod Ultimate - Copper

• R 199,999.00
•  

[TNT1]

High Mod Ultimate - Copper

•  

Sounds like it's made from old water pipes.

[DieselnDust]

that depends on how much money the marketing department spends, which then gets passed on to the consumer i.e. lighter, stiffer, faster etc.

 

 

The price. Someone has to pay for all that marketing hype...

 

 

nailed it!

How many pro's do we sponsor?

How many concept stores do we own? Jeez that many, ok this is going to hurt...

How cheaply can we get these bikes made so that we can soend the money on the paint job that keeps them coming back for more?

Ah Ok lets pass that onto the sucker buying the bike.

 

good job marketing dept

[DieselnDust]

 

R70k   ???

 

Cannondale 2021 Scalpel High Mod Ultimate - Copper

• R 199,999.00
•  

 

 

 

 

Shjoe it would have hurt if it was R200,000-00!!

[Riaan H]

You'd be surprised. 

 

Often on XC bikes there would be 2-3 models with exactly the same frame, same handlebars, same seat tube, same saddle where the only difference is the groupset, and progressively better paint jobs.

 

Here you would see bikes go from predominantly SLX parts + XT rear deraileur, to full XT, or NX to GX.

 

There tends to then be a next tier with carbon frames running again the same handlebars etc with better and better groupsets, and somewhere along carbon wheels too.

 

Then there's the top step, where you get the lightest and stiffest frames, running the best from Shimano or Sram, with carbon wheels, etc, and podium worthy paintjobs, but little in the way of real improvement above the top bikes from the middle tier. This is where the term "marginal gains" live. Indeed, everything is slightly lighter, slightly stiffer etc, but the difference comes at a huge premium. 

 

As an example of the above, let's take a look at the current Specialised Epic:

 

- There used to be an alloy Comp model that had the same spec as the carbon one, but roughly R15k cheaper

- Comp (carbon) is R78k and comes with RS Reba fork and SLX groupset 

- Expert is R 110k and comes with RS SID fork, XO1 Eagle groupset and carbon wheels

- Pro is R 140k and comes with lighter SID SL fork, XO1 Eagle  AXS groupset and carbon wheels

- S-Works is R 190k and comes with SID Ultimate fork, XX1 Eagle AXS groupset, carbon bars, seatpost and wheels

 

It will be the same with any other brands, the devil is in the details, the more you pay, the (slightly) lighter and better the bikes get.

[Long Wheel Base]

What Is the difference between High end bike and the Ultra high end bike? More on the trail and XC side of things

I know that going from entry level to mid level there can be loads of changed like better group sets, lighter  carbon seat/seatpost, lighter handelbars etc but once what makes a MTB go to R70k plus? 

Trying to wrap my head around what makes them cost so much. 

 

 

 

 

The end users bank balance.

[Kom]

What Is the difference between High end bike and the Ultra high end bike? More on the trail and XC side of things

I know that going from entry level to mid level there can be loads of changed like better group sets, lighter  carbon seat/seatpost, lighter handelbars etc but once what makes a MTB go to R70k plus? 

Trying to wrap my head around what makes them cost so much. 

If you want my opinion?: for the same brand, Trek, Specialized, Giant etc etc the difference between all their base and upper models is quite significant:

1. Groupset - Drivetrain components and Brakes can vary hugely, not just on the initial out the box feel, but the overall duration and endurance of the groupsets, even maintenance costs. There are diminishing returns beyond SRAM GX (X01, XX1 and AXS are extremely expensive to own and live with), and Shimano XT (XTR and Di2 are just not worth it)
2. Fork and Shock Combo - easy to underestimate the difference between an entry level fork and top of the range. Rock Shox as a brand vs Fox for instance, you will ride these suspension brands yourself and easily feel the difference, Fox is definitely the gold standard, but pricey AF!
3. Frame Material - Alloy -> Basic Carbon -> Advanced Carbon - trust me its not about the weight, its about the way it "feels". Stiffness, compliance etc there are differences which you can get used to depending on your riding style.
4. Wheelset - this to me is the category where there are the biggest diminishing returns. Everyone has their favorite brands and hoop material favorite, but its clear that a - DT Swiss hubs are the best to own/maintain b - carbon hoops "rotate" nicely, but they crack and need costly repair a-lot more than a decent alloy rim which could be "bent" back into working condition, either through Tru'ing or even light repair with a disc truing tool. c - inner width for running large volume tires is super important, i've even seen XC'ers running 30mm inner diameter hoops which allow for low running pressures, larger 2.4" tires etc

As you can see there are a ton of attributes that differ between base and top of the range model. How do you know which is best for you? if non of the 4 points above made any sense to you i.e. you are starting out, my recommendation is to get the cheapest alloy MTB from your favorite LBS, don't listen to the hog wash about carbon and electronic shifting unless you have learnt to disseminate from the above attributes.

[dirtrider]

Years ago I also fell for all this market hype until like somebody already mentioned I asked the question why would a pedal bike cost more than a small car !!!! R&D and all the other explanations does not add up so I came to the conclusion that we are being ripped off !! At that stage most of my friends already saw the light and moved back to what  a bicycle should be , two wheels with handle bar and a seat . 

 

Now everybody is shouting blue murder !!!! What can you do with a steel , single speed bike without shocks , Forks and carbon seatpost bolts !!!

 

Well the short answer is  you have twice the fun doing whatever you choose to do on your bike . Been almost 15 years that I have enjoy the freedom of xtra cash , little maintenance , silence and rattle free etc . 

 

But I assume some people feel the need to have to pay for happiness .

[Nick]

What Is the difference between High end bike and the Ultra high end bike? More on the trail and XC side of things

I know that going from entry level to mid level there can be loads of changed like better group sets, lighter  carbon seat/seatpost, lighter handelbars etc but once what makes a MTB go to R70k plus? 

Trying to wrap my head around what makes them cost so much. 

 

It's just more of the same sort of improvements really. It just starts costing more and more to improve on as the available scope for improvement narrows. Pricier materials, more complex and longer manufacturing techniques, more R&D, electronic, and the expectation of bigger margins for the effort.

 

Mock the marketing all you want but top tier bikes are stupendously fun things to ride, so there is merit in them. But they are also far from necessary.

 

While the cutting edge has been improving so have entry level and mid range bikes. In fact, they've never been better. More riders need to embrace this and be satisfied. 

[Bos]

So where is that point of diminishing return? 50K ??

[DieselnDust]

So where is that point of diminishing return? 50K ??

It depends,...

 

if you want to just ride to keep fit and have a bit of fun then R50K is quite high

 

if youa Wines2Whales midfielder then R50K is probably about right

 

if you want to race and compete regularly at the sharp then its higher.