Will you repair this?

[BogusOne]

I say again that both Graeme and myself have answered all questions truthfully and openly and have not tried to pull the wool over anyone's eyes to the regard of the carbon trade as it stands in SA. So i ask again why do we need to take the brunt of any scrutiny if we have nothing to to with this particular repair and have only given advice and insight.

 

I for one do not work for insurance companies as such nor do i do for for bike shops in general except 1 in Cpt and 1 in Jhb. I solely do work for private individuals.

 

 

Also as far as i have read from the start this repair was not pushed from thw start by the insurance company but was recommended by someone from the 3rd bike shop it was taken to and only taken for 1 repair quote there after so many questions can be asked...

 

But clearly some people are very short sighted on this forum so its useless to try and educate. At the end of the day all i can say to the OP is as i said originally that its his bike and if he does not feel comfortable to have it repaired he has the right to opt for a cash payout from Santam to replace on his own accord. Im insured through Santam with a brilliant broker.

[Mopkop]

Relax, the okes have thus far been answering everything so far. Sure they'll get to answering the question, no doubt they also have work to do. 

 

 

I did not ask this from Anton or Graeme, I was referring to still waiting on the insurance

[Grease_Monkey]

Jumping in at the back end of this, so my post is likely going to be a bit off the current topic.

 

Someone I knew a few years back cracked a carbon frame, insurer wanted to repair even after a 2 shops gave the opinion the frame was a write off - this made me pose the question to my insurer - do you ever repair? Or do you always replace cracked carbon?

 

I was with MiWay at the time - they repair. I then called a few others who also repair if they can:

 

- Santam

- King Price

- Momentum

 

Eventually got to CycleSure who replace. I was extremely happy about that when my carbon frame eventually did crack, which they then paid out for at full retail.

 

Anyway, long story short, I am very happy with them, 3 claims later (2 very minor, 1 cracked frame). The moral of the story being, as with all things, do your homework before buying something including insurance.

 

On the topic of repair - after having read some of Carbon Ninja's posts, I'm convinced it is solid, and if I was not insured I'd likely go that route. But, insurance I want to put me in the same financial position as before, and repair does not do that. As soon as you mention a frame has been repaired it's value practically drops to zero.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Grease_Monkey

[eddy]

A few years ago I crashed and broke the driveside chainstay on my S-Works Tarmac and had it expertly repaired.

 

It was impossible to see the repair but I could not sell it with a clear conscience and thus gave it to my brother who still rides and races it successfully.

 

Functionally it was perfect, but economically worthless. 

[King_Crispy]

I can well understand how you might be incredulous, and I am glad that you acknowledge that you are a layman. This is where trust in the expertise that I have (and you don't) is required.

 

Fortunately no one forces you to ride a repaired frame, if you can't get your head around it then you must simply opt for another solution.

 

As for the science, there's plenty but I'll make an attempt to summarise :

 

CFRP or carbon fibre reinforced plastic comes essentially in two versions, thermoplastic and thermoset. Bikes are made with thermoset resin and this is imminently repairable because it is imminently bondable.

 

New frames are made in multiple pieces that are glued together, typically stays are glued via lugs to the one piece front triangle. The join is then "taped" to make it one piece. In a job like the one that is the subject of this thread, I would emulate this process by creating an internal lug that joins the two halves of the head tube together, then I would tape the two halves. (Taping is just a term for wrapping carbon fabric on a closed surface, it's not taping like sellotape)!

 

I have a big that maintains alignment and the lug that I make is largely geometrically conformal with the internal surfaces of the original head tube. In this way a repair adds only 10s of grams to the original mass, rather than hundreds.

 

Appropriatly selected reinforcing carbon fabric and epoxy matrix then merge the two halves of the head tube via an appropriate consolidation and fibre volume fraction maintaining process. I use VI mostly, sometimes vacuum bagging. You won't find insulation tape in this workshop, no "Pap en Lap" as my colleague Anton calls it!

 

My methods are all derived from repair method standard best practice from the civilian aerospace industry. These manuals are published by Boeing, Airbus and so on for technicians to make repairs to their planes which are increasingly composite intensive.

 

Oh, and lastly, I've had the quality of my laminates tested independently. I did this to ensure a low void and high fibre volume fraction laminate a was being repeatably achieved by my repair methodology.

 

Lastly, I forgot to add, the analogy with orthopedic science is not totally valid, medicine is not an exact science where composites are, pretty much. There are many variables and unknown unknowns in the world of medicine, but luckily in this arena, its far more exacting.

Jirre boet, sounds like you've ingested a date-rape drug.

 

Take your story to Discovery, they'll love you forever

[Matchstix]

To be honest that can be repaired BUT i would trust only 3 people to do it... And thats not just a simple lap and pap job either.

 

If you do not feel comfortable to have it repaired then DONT. You have the right to tell that to your insurance. Also for a head tube to snap like that the steerer tube of the fork is bound to have some damage even if not visible to the naked eye. Think twice before having it repaired mate. As i always say your life is more important than saving or making a couple of bucks.

Who are the 3 you would trust?

[BigDL]

Jirre boet, sounds like you've ingested a date-rape drug.

 

Take your story to Discovery, they'll love you forever

That’s a bit harsh. Don’t be a knob

[King_Crispy]

That’s a bit harsh. Don’t be a knob

Sorry.

I don't do well with someone that issues self-praise and tries to act like a know-it-all

[Mamil]

Definitely its an opinion. And an emotional one too!! But i also sold my car after it was stolen and recovered because it didn't feel the same so that's probably informing my complete reluctamce to accept such an insurance settlement.

 

 

 

 

respectfully speaking this is an opinion.

 

The professional has stipulated and others have confirmed that the repair is stronger than the original (which has already failed)

 

I agree it is nerve wracking but there is an element of danger in this sport.

 

Plus, insurer has the right to repair so the only choice that you have is to accept the repair or deviate from the signed and agreed policy by doing your own thing.

 

(On mobile app please excuse grammar)

[Eugene]

OP : “Will you repair this?”

 

Industry professional with oodles of experience and qualifications : “Yes”

 

Bunch of people with no experience or qualifications armed only with opinion: “No! We know better and the professional is wrong!!!”

 

This place makes me laugh.

Actually, Bogus, an industry professional with oodles of experience said that he would not repair it.

[Wayne Potgieter]

Actually, Bogus, an industry professional with oodles of experience said that he would not repair it.

bogus literally said that it can be repaired but he only trusts three people to do it.

[MORNE]

almost that time of the week again...

 

[Wayne Potgieter]

almost that time of the week again...

i am a few hours ahead of you guys. Does that mean I have an unfair advantage?

 

[emoji3]

[Capricorn]

Sorry.

I don't do well with someone that issues self-praise and tries to act like a know-it-all

i think you are going to have to do a whole lot better than cast wild aspersions, like factually contradict Carbon Ninja. Without that argument, your last sentiment is going to be quite ironic.

[shaper]

Jumping in at the back end of this, so my post is likely going to be a bit off the current topic.

 

Someone I knew a few years back cracked a carbon frame, insurer wanted to repair even after a 2 shops gave the opinion the frame was a write off - this made me pose the question to my insurer - do you ever repair? Or do you always replace cracked carbon?

 

I was with MiWay at the time - they repair. I then called a few others who also repair if they can:

 

- Santam

- King Price

- Momentum

 

Eventually got to CycleSure who replace. I was extremely happy about that when my carbon frame eventually did crack, which they then paid out for at full retail.

 

Anyway, long story short, I am very happy with them, 3 claims later (2 very minor, 1 cracked frame). The moral of the story being, as with all things, do your homework before buying something including insurance.

 

On the topic of repair - after having read some of Carbon Ninja's posts, I'm convinced it is solid, and if I was not insured I'd likely go that route. But, insurance I want to put me in the same financial position as before, and repair does not do that. As soon as you mention a frame has been repaired it's value practically drops to zero.

Am with you on this that if the insurance industry is moving to repair rather than replace, then we should all ask this question of our insurance.  It is concerning to say the least.

 

What I have tried to highlight in my comments that it seems unfair that the insurance are shifting public liability to those who are prepared to do the repairs and there is no real form of accountability with regard to regulatory bodies or liability insurance in place.  As both Bogus and Carbon Ninja have highlighted, the good ones able to carry out such repairs with the experience, ability and reputation are few and far between and there are many without such experience.

 

As for me, am with Discovery and have had 1 road bike (seat stay's break) from a crash in a race and 1 tri bike, bent hanger and cracked chain stay and both times i was paid out insurance fully to replace the frames.

[DJR]

Industry people with no regulation or standards and based on trust of the individual doing the work

At least one of the professionals have a degree in structural engineering, THAT is the definitive qualification. Perhaps you missed the post earlier? But yes, it is still based on trust at the end of the day, much like you have to trust the plumber doing a bypass op to keep you cycling.