Motorists vs Cyclists.... again

[Shebeen]

16 hours ago, Andreas_187 said:

Unfortunately all the disgusting comments from members of the public on social media are fueled from our collective behaviour on the roads... and they are 100% correct. We are HORRIBLE road users.

Cyclists are riding 2 or 3 abreast nearly every morning between Sea Point and Camps Bay. Unbelievably they don't even look behind for their own safety. The 3 abreast continues all the way up to Suikerbossie. When it gets to Chappies we're now 4 abreast. We don't stop at Stop streets or traffic lights. When a car hoots it's then full on shouting and swearing. We are our own worst enemy.

 

You haven't worded it very well, but a portion* of cyclist behave atrociously on the roads (chops). They make the rest of us (decent) look bad. Look at the title of the thread, this is not unique to south africa either.

The "you do you" approach does not work here. The decent cyclists are best placed to call out the behaviour of the chops, for our shared common benefit of safer roads and better vibes with drivers. BUT we can't see to agree on that here (I hope I'm not surrounded by chops)

 

* the chops:decent ratio is probably 5:95, but motorists will have you know it's the other way round!

 

 

18 hours ago, Zebra said:

The speed limit for that section is 40km/h.

 

https://www.strava.com/segments/2732916?filter=overall

strava downhill KOM (actually not a thing) for the entire chappies is 69km/h average. My fastest average is during Argus and is 41.1km/h (I'm a wuss). that puts me 6500 something out of 56000 ish efforts. So simple numbers is that 15% of people are averaging faster than the 40km/h speed limit, peak speeds will be well above it.  

[Headshot]

2 hours ago, wolver said:

By "we" you mean people right? People are c@#*$... some ride bikes, some drive cars.

 

Most of the c$nts on social media clearly don't ride now or have never ridden a bike.

Edited August 6, 2025 by Headshot

[Headshot]

12 hours ago, Spookie said:

I was not there, so cannot say what exactly happened. But looking at the photos and having ridden past where it happened on Saturday - I highly doubt they were going extremely fast. The road levels out there into an almost false flat (1/2%) which would likely have tempered their speed a bit (wasn’t on a steep descent section). Don’t think there was much wind that day, but what there was would likely have been a slight NW (headwind). Looking at where it happened, there should have been at least 100m of sight for the bus before turning. The damage was the RHS of the bus windscreen indicating it had possibly just started turning in. I’m sure there are fancy algorithms and plenty of witnesses to piece it together at some point. However none of this changes the outcome either way 😥 sh*tty week all around. 

Thanks for the info on the scene. The facts make it even worse for the bus driver. 

This is very like the accident that killed Burry Stander. That driver was convicted of culpable homicide. 

Ways to try to avoid this kind of tragedy as a rider: 1.Treat every moving vehicle including other riders as death machines 2. Expect every other driver/rider to do the wrong thing eg. cut across your path, open a door, stop suddenly. 3. Ride with a bright flashing light up front always.

[jcza]

31 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Most of the c$nts on social media clearly don't ride now or have never ridden a bike.

[Prince Albert Cycles]

15 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Thanks for the info on the scene. The facts make it even worse for the bus driver. 

This is very like the accident that killed Burry Stander. That driver was convicted of culpable homicide. 

Ways to try to avoid this kind of tragedy as a rider: 1.Treat every moving vehicle including other riders as death machines 2. Expect every other driver/rider to do the wrong thing eg. cut across your path, open a door, stop suddenly. 3. Ride with a bright flashing light up front always.

This . 

When I started driving many many moons ago my uncle said to me “ regard every other driver as a bloody fool until he proves otherwise “ advice which saved me quite a few times

[Wannabe]

Cyclists are chops, period.

Cycling back from the memorial ride for Dennis Hammar on Sunday morning, I was stationary at a red traffic light, when a couple of chops on their bikes (all dressed as Pro's) just blew through, swerving between the vehicles that has right of way and busy crossing the intersection. I called out to them that the light is red, and they should stop, only to be sworn at by the last rider to blow through and told to mind my own business. I shouted back that it's OK, they are potential organ donors and to carry on. I looked at the cars stationary next to me and shrugged my shoulders. I at least got a look of understanding back from one of the drivers.

I SAY AGAIN, CYCLISTS ARE CHOPS!!!! 

[Danger Dassie]

11 minutes ago, Wannabe said:

Cyclists are chops, period.

Cycling back from the memorial ride for Dennis Hammar on Sunday morning, I was stationary at a red traffic light, when a couple of chops on their bikes (all dressed as Pro's) just blew through, swerving between the vehicles that has right of way and busy crossing the intersection. I called out to them that the light is red, and they should stop, only to be sworn at by the last rider to blow through and told to mind my own business. I shouted back that it's OK, they are potential organ donors and to carry on. I looked at the cars stationary next to me and shrugged my shoulders. I at least got a look of understanding back from one of the drivers.

I SAY AGAIN, CYCLISTS ARE CHOPS!!!! 

So basically a screaming match between two unhinged parties is how it would look to any bystander? 
 

[Wannabe]

Eish, some people darem.......

No, it would be clear that there is/was one responsible person calling out a couple of chops who endangered other people's lives with their reckless behavior.

 

[Mamil]

2 hours ago, wolver said:

By "we" you mean people right? People are c@#*$... some ride bikes, some drive cars.

 

This strikes a chord with my latent misanthropy but perhaps we can say a lot of people are c##@s and some ride bikes and some cars.

3 percent of the American population meets the diagnositc criteria for Anti-social personality. And that's just one of the personality disorders.

 

14 minutes ago, Wannabe said:

Cyclists are chops, period.

Cycling back from the memorial ride for Dennis Hammar on Sunday morning, I was stationary at a red traffic light, when a couple of chops on their bikes (all dressed as Pro's) just blew through, swerving between the vehicles that has right of way and busy crossing the intersection. I called out to them that the light is red, and they should stop, only to be sworn at by the last rider to blow through and told to mind my own business. I shouted back that it's OK, they are potential organ donors and to carry on. I looked at the cars stationary next to me and shrugged my shoulders. I at least got a look of understanding back from one of the drivers.

I SAY AGAIN, CYCLISTS ARE CHOPS!!!! 

Speak for yourself. That's like saying all people who wear green T shirts or who drive Renaults or who prefer cardigans over pullovers are chops.

I try not to be a chop .... but deep down, I suspect I at least have significant propensities for it. I try to control him, but the inner chop is well .... a bit of a chop really.

[Wannabe]

3 minutes ago, Mamil said:

Snip Snip

Speak for yourself. That's like saying all people who wear green T shirts or who drive Renaults or who prefer cardigans over pullovers are chops.

I try not to be a chop .... but deep down, I suspect I at least have significant propensities for it. I try to control him, but the inner chop is well .... a bit of a chop really.

So, as you admit, there is a bit of a chop in you (all cyclists)

I have the viewpoint that there must be a hidden microswitch in the chamois of the bibs, which switches the owner/rider's brain off as soon as his behind hits his seat. 

[RobynE 🚵‍♀️]

The thing is, whether driving or cycling, one must do so defensively.

Always expect the worst.

Expect a car to appear from every driveway, or every corner. Expect them to drift or overtake in the left lane. Expect them to pass by you with 20cm to spare. Expect them to hit you because they’re on their phone. Expect them to jump a light. Expect them to open a door or stop abruptly in front of you. Expect them not to see you because they’re mentally preoccupied. Expect them not to see you because the sun is in their eyes. Expect them to assume road conditions. Expect them to swerve to avoid a pedestrian/dog/obstruction. Expect them to lose control around a bend. 

And then turn it all around when you’re behind the wheel because you are “them” even if you’re consciously trying not to be. 

While I’m not sure of any relevance to the Chappies incident, this thing of riding abreast HAS to stop. It HAS TO. I know some people like to talk to their mates as they ride, but it has to stop. For our safety and for our reputation as road users. 

Please use bright flashing lights at both ends and if you want to talk or suffer together do it somewhere that cars aren’t approaching you at 60-100km/h. I live very close to Cedar Road and the 2-4 abreast without a safety car and usually dressed in black from head to toe is constant challenge whether climbing or descending, especially on the weekends.

I, who does not look at my phone while driving and normally don’t even have the radio on, and always have my lights on, have had riders swing out in front of me chatting to their mates even in my white (noisy diesel) or blue cars. Like some really, really narrow, heart-thumping misses. 

Please don’t think it won’t happen to you regardless of whether you’re on or in the vehicle. 

[Mamil]

1 hour ago, Wannabe said:

So, as you admit, there is a bit of a chop in you (all cyclists)

I have the viewpoint that there must be a hidden microswitch in the chamois of the bibs, which switches the owner/rider's brain off as soon as his behind hits his seat. 

You know the "All cretans lie" paradox?

Are you also maybe a bit of a chop? 🙂'cos by your reasoning (all cyclists are chops), and mine, (There's a chop inside all of us and we have to control it and a portion of the population can't or doesn't want to) - you might be.

Questions it behooves all of us to ask maybe include "Am I being a chop?" and "How would I know if I was being a chop?".

Of course we can tell each other we're chops - "You a chop / n o you a chop" so that's not a reliable indicator...

 

[Andreas_187]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

You haven't worded it very well, but a portion* of cyclist behave atrociously on the roads (chops). They make the rest of us (decent) look bad. Look at the title of the thread, this is not unique to south africa either.

The "you do you" approach does not work here. The decent cyclists are best placed to call out the behaviour of the chops, for our shared common benefit of safer roads and better vibes with drivers. BUT we can't see to agree on that here (I hope I'm not surrounded by chops)

 

* the chops:decent ratio is probably 5:95, but motorists will have you know it's the other way round!

 

 

https://www.strava.com/segments/2732916?filter=overall

strava downhill KOM (actually not a thing) for the entire chappies is 69km/h average. My fastest average is during Argus and is 41.1km/h (I'm a wuss). that puts me 6500 something out of 56000 ish efforts. So simple numbers is that 15% of people are averaging faster than the 40km/h speed limit, peak speeds will be well above it.  

I think I worded it very well actually. Cyclists will be viewed as a collective. A person driving from Noordhoek to Sea Point may pass 300 cyclists. On the last stretch he will be faced with 3 chops blocking the whole road... The guy is sitting there thinking I bloody hate cyclists. He's not thinking the other 297 are amazing but these 3 are chops. Collective

[Wannabe]

10 minutes ago, Mamil said:

You know the "All cretans lie" paradox?

Are you also maybe a bit of a chop? 🙂'cos by your reasoning (all cyclists are chops), and mine, (There's a chop inside all of us and we have to control it and a portion of the population can't or doesn't want to) - you might be.

Questions it behooves all of us to ask maybe include "Am I being a chop?" and "How would I know if I was being a chop?".

Of course we can tell each other we're chops - "You a chop / n o you a chop" so that's not a reliable indicator...

 

Off course I'm a chop too. I try hard not to be, but that Grumpy Old Fart is always busy boiling right under the surface. Keeping him there is bloody hard work.

 

[Mook]

4 minutes ago, Andreas_187 said:

I think I worded it very well actually. Cyclists will be viewed as a collective. A person driving from Noordhoek to Sea Point may pass 300 cyclists. On the last stretch he will be faced with 3 chops blocking the whole road... The guy is sitting there thinking I bloody hate cyclists. He's not thinking the other 297 are amazing but these 3 are chops. Collective

This comment has relevance to my story.

On Saturday morning 08:00'ish I am working my way towards Bainskloof out of Wellington when 7/8 guys passed me with friendly greetings being exchanged. 100 Meters up the road they decide to shed their gillets while riding. They were literally on the centerline while taking off their warm top layers. Behind them, at that time, was a SUV waiting on this lot to clear the road so he could pass.

I thought to myself ........... what is going through that driver's thoughts at that time.

I mean ........ WTF guys, why not pull OFF the road to get undressed. 

This kind of sh*t must stop. We(myself included) are rubbing motorists up the wrong way when we behave like this.

[Robbie Stewart]

Recently, well maybe not very recently given the weather, anyway, I was crossing the R27 by the Table Bay mall on my mtb. I had the green lights. Cars were stopped either side of me. Just as I cross the outbound portion that heads North, I see a gaggle of roadies approaching from my left. Naturally, since I have right of way and just about crossed 80% of the intersection, I continue. Head-roadie decides he's not stopping. He rides straight into my path. I lock rubber, and swerve furiously. I yell out "WTaF" at the moron. He explodes into an expletive laden rant at me, essentially insisting I mind my own business.

That fella doesn't know how close he came to being properly bliksemed on the side of the road. I got dangerously close to teaching him a life lesson that day.

Given the turn this thread has taken, I am not so sure any motor vehicle operator would have minded an awful lot seeing one cyclist handing out jungle justice to another cyclist. I suspect that group of lycra tigers fall firmly into the "prick" category. Else definitely in the "chop" category. Maybe both.