Motorists vs Cyclists.... again

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, jcza said:

wow how has it taken a decade for this masterpiece to cross my radar?!

It's not to scale, but serves the message perfectly.

 

I'd actually like a bumper sticker on my car that says something like:

"I also ride bikes but today I am in my car.

If you see me shaking my head, you're riding like a chop.

Be lekker, share the road" 

[splat]

This has turned into Moer Mekaar Friday, but its a few days early
Lets not turn on each other. We have enough issues and enough 'enemies'.

Cyclists bad riding habits isn't winning us any friends on the road or on Social Media.
But that behavior is not what is taking lives...
Doors and Muggers and Busses and Drunk Drivers have done a lot of damage lately.
But somehow, they aren't the bad guys on Facebook.

[Mamil]

1 hour ago, Andreas_187 said:

I think I worded it very well actually. Cyclists will be viewed as a collective. A person driving from Noordhoek to Sea Point may pass 300 cyclists. On the last stretch he will be faced with 3 chops blocking the whole road... The guy is sitting there thinking I bloody hate cyclists. He's not thinking the other 297 are amazing but these 3 are chops. Collective

Logical so long as we are in the heuristic that assumes cars are primary and that I should not be delayed in my journey and that pedestrians, and people who do not have a few hundred kilowatts under their right foot should be on the tiny space to the far left of the road that the motorist centric assumption that dominates transport system design and the law permits them.

In a properly designed, more sustainable, less aggressive culture, that motorist would wait patiently until it was time to overtake. His failure to do so would be condemned with the same vitriol reserved from the "chops" riding three abreast.

Of course we don't live in that culture but this "We are our own worst enemy" seems to me to obscure the possibility and if we take the effect of hydrocarbon fuels on the environment seriously, urban mobility must start to prioritize non-motorised transport.

If I come up behind three cyclists riding abreast, I turn the music up, notice that I actually wish I was sucking their wheel rather than steering mine and give them a 2 meter gap when I overtake them.

More of us chops should do that and so should tour and my city busses etc.... 

To the bicycle really is a part of the solution to the global sh1tstorm we are in - whether that's 3 abreast or not.

Just to note, I don't ride three abreast unless I'm in the middle of nowwhere and if I am am alongside someone, my radar warns me of a car and I move into single file... but then as noted, I am a chop.

 

[saggy]

1 hour ago, Mamil said:

In a properly designed, more sustainable, less aggressive culture, that motorist would wait patiently until it was time to overtake. His failure to do so would be condemned with the same vitriol reserved from the "chops" riding three abreast.

even in a properly designed, more sustainable, less aggressive culture where that motorist would wait patiently .....  are those cyclists not still being chops by knowingly holding up this motorist when it would be very easy to let it pass. Im not saying they have to move over ..... but would it not be a nice thing to do.

Maybe even give the motorist a friendly wave as he/she passes .......

[NotSoBigBen]

3 hours ago, Andreas_187 said:

I think I worded it very well actually. Cyclists will be viewed as a collective. A person driving from Noordhoek to Sea Point may pass 300 cyclists. On the last stretch he will be faced with 3 chops blocking the whole road... The guy is sitting there thinking I bloody hate cyclists. He's not thinking the other 297 are amazing but these 3 are chops. Collective

I have similar thinking about BMW drivers and full leather racing suit superbike riders ... maar nou ja

[Mamil]

42 minutes ago, saggy said:

even in a properly designed, more sustainable, less aggressive culture where that motorist would wait patiently .....  are those cyclists not still being chops by knowingly holding up this motorist when it would be very easy to let it pass. Im not saying they have to move over ..... but would it not be a nice thing to do.

Maybe even give the motorist a friendly wave as he/she passes .......

For sure Ja, if safe to do so 

[cadenceblur]

1 hour ago, NotSoBigBen said:

I have similar thinking about BMW drivers and full leather racing suit superbike riders ... maar nou ja

Hey! I tick both those boxes and I’m not a chop 🤔

or am I ?😂

[ChrisF]

21 minutes ago, cadenceblur said:

Hey! I tick both those boxes and I’m not a chop 🤔

or am I ?😂

 

Two negatives makes a positive ... 🤣

[love2fly]

On 7/30/2025 at 9:23 AM, shaper said:

I have also heard similar, along the lines of did a U-turn without looking, right into the path of the bakkie

I heard that u-turn theory but about a motorcyclist vs a cyclist accident on the Caves road the week before. I'm not so sure this happened in the Kerry Grundlingh accident.

Edited August 6, 2025 by love2fly

[117]

Here in this state in the USA the law is for a motorist to give 3ft berth/space when passing a cyclist (thats a yard, or just under a meter for those that dont speak yank)

Its also law to ride in single file, not 3 or 4 or 5 abreast

People follow the law here, if you don't you get arrested. Its as simple as that. The feds have nothing better to do than bust people for these trivial rule infringements, not because they're dicks, but because there is no other laws being broken like speeding, or fishing for their next corrupt bribe. 

In safferland we cant expect cyclists and vehicle road users to respect each others space in a society where breaking the law is a national sport and the policing system is all but a word from the past

 

 

[cadenceblur]

5 minutes ago, 117 said:

Here in this state in the USA the law is for a motorist to give 3ft berth/space when passing a cyclist (thats a yard, or just under a meter for those that dont speak yank)

Its also law to ride in single file, not 3 or 4 or 5 abreast

People follow the law here, if you don't you get arrested. Its as simple as that. The feds have nothing better to do than bust people for these trivial rule infringements, not because they're dicks, but because there is no other laws being broken like speeding, or fishing for their next corrupt bribe. 

In safferland we cant expect cyclists and vehicle road users to respect each others space in a society where breaking the law is a national sport and the policing system is all but a word from the past

 

 

Yup, was there recently and the pedestrian crossings were something else, no one crosses until the man is green! 

[Andreas_187]

On the flip side of cyclists riding 3 abreast up Chappies we have Navy employees caught on video almost killing a guy and he got off with a slap on the wrist...maybe the judge hates cyclists?

Edited August 6, 2025 by Andreas_187

[Headshot]

16 hours ago, Mamil said:

Logical so long as we are in the heuristic that assumes cars are primary and that I should not be delayed in my journey and that pedestrians, and people who do not have a few hundred kilowatts under their right foot should be on the tiny space to the far left of the road that the motorist centric assumption that dominates transport system design and the law permits them.

In a properly designed, more sustainable, less aggressive culture, that motorist would wait patiently until it was time to overtake. His failure to do so would be condemned with the same vitriol reserved from the "chops" riding three abreast.

Of course we don't live in that culture but this "We are our own worst enemy" seems to me to obscure the possibility and if we take the effect of hydrocarbon fuels on the environment seriously, urban mobility must start to prioritize non-motorised transport.

If I come up behind three cyclists riding abreast, I turn the music up, notice that I actually wish I was sucking their wheel rather than steering mine and give them a 2 meter gap when I overtake them.

More of us chops should do that and so should tour and my city busses etc.... 

To the bicycle really is a part of the solution to the global sh1tstorm we are in - whether that's 3 abreast or not.

Just to note, I don't ride three abreast unless I'm in the middle of nowwhere and if I am am alongside someone, my radar warns me of a car and I move into single file... but then as noted, I am a chop.

 

Well said!

[RobynE 🚵‍♀️]

For me, while on the road, “the law” doesn’t enter my mind for a moment.

I do everything because I try to reduce risk to myself. It’s a purely selfish stance. It just so happens (and I say this without sarcasm) that my behaviour out there lines up with “the law”.

Stopping at a red light? Driving at x max speed on x road? Riding single file? Only overtaking on the right? Many examples all with the same answer: it’s safer. 

Of course there are times where I have something on my mind/I’m in a rush/daydreaming, and I unconsciously step outside the realm of “safer”. We are human after all. 

I’m not ready to leave this realm. I also don’t want to spend time in this realm feeling that I was the reason someone left it prematurely. My own selfishness wants me to mitigate my own risk in every way. I can still be a chop from time to time but I’m way too selfish to be a full time chop. 

[RobynE 🚵‍♀️]

As an addendum to the above, I was much more of a chop until I turned 30. I was probably a Senior Chop in my mid-20s driving a very modified Subaru WRX like I stole it every day. I think back now on our Scooby club breakfast runs down Satellite Road (a very popular cycling route now) and I shudder. There was never an incident, but, wow. What fools we were. At the time it was the sound of the 20+ cars, driving that road like we were on rails, the feeling of power and speed, the notion of absolute control. Now it feels almost embarrassing that I ever did that. Young, dumb, full of er fun. 

[Mamil]

Most mornings I trackstand on the dirty pavement corner of Liesbeek parkway and Durban Road waiting for the lights to favour pedestrians. This morning 3 domestic workers, 3 green uniformed schoolkids and a bergie watched the endless stream of climate controlled lounge suites race through the intersection to back up at the onramp to the M3. Some of the drivers are texting, some are eating, one is doing her makeup.

A rider in lycra and a backpack rides a fast tempo at the same speed as the cars, hugging the left hand side. I seem him often and recognise him from the local races. Sometimes we nod.

Normality.

When the light changes and the groen mannetjie comes on you can't cross because the last 3 cars are squeezing through - my inner chop wants to moer the bonnet of the last one as he last minute brakes for the schoolkids who have darted in front of him. 

Normal

Yesterday, a taxi took the little loop past the fat cactus and the black sash offices and the Gear Change to join Durban road on the wrong side of the road, force his way across the turning lane to go straight on to the taxi rank in Obz - no-one even bothers to hoot. 

Normal normal normal.

I make it across the road,

I don't ride on Durban road, choosing the pavement on my orange gravel bike, and crawl along behind a group of construction guys who are shouting and laughing about something and don't know I'm behind them. One of them realises and pushes his mate aside - sorry gentlemen I say as I take the gap.

My obsessive mind retreats from this scene and re-imagines it. I replace the absurd stream of cars with a stream of dutch commuter style ebikes. I turn one side of Liesbeek parkway into a grass and tree piazza with coffee shops, and cafes. 

I replace the taxis with tram cars on rails.

At the Rondebosch common I stand at the pedestrian crossing at the traffic circle - 1, 2, 3, the fourth one stops but is almost rear ended by the one behind.

More f@32kin normality.

On the cycle path alongside the common while I worry about the mummy's in SUV's dropping the kids off and the likelihood that someone is going to pull over into the cycle lane to try squeeze past the car at the front turning right. 

Another scene I reimagine in a similar way.

I think about an Ursula K LeGuinn quote about late stage monopoly capitalism. She says that once upon a time the divine right of kings was an unshakable reality that governed how power was distributed and now we scoff at the idea. It's comforting because it means that this unshakeable normality in which 3 okes riding abreast can be interpreted as "our worst enemy" and as "chops" can change and almost definitely will. It has to as surely as the divine right of kings had to change. 

Trouble is, lots of people had to die for that to happen.

To me, the bicycle is a symbol of this change - a person, on a machine, connected to the earth, moving fast under his/her own power. It's part of the reason I love cycling so much, it feels subversive, it allies me with the domestics and the schoolkids, it connects me with what's happening around me. I can play my role in the community, I admonish the kids who drop their coke bottles and chip packets on the road. I tell them that the man who cleans the street could be their grandfather, just  like a cranky old village curmudgeon should do.

The car on the other hand seems to me an emblem of the disconnection of our era - the highly individualistic culture of late stage capitalism, insulated from the ground, isolated from the environment, controlling the elements rather than being with them, and belching out a trail of noxious fumes that chokes the air above every city on the planet.

This makes riding a bicycle a subversive activity - no-one in a car sees the kids mooching to school, notices the comings and goings of the street, recognises the faces and the routines of the shops and the workers and the dog walkers along the route. The rider is forced to deal with the environment, respond to it physically, with effort and strength. The car bends the world to the driver's will, places him in the driver's seat, a dominant force, an emblem of status, a symbol of quixotic supremacy over the world.

Normality. pah!