Does doping exist in SA?

[Shebeen]

I'm pretty naive on how this all actually works and I'm not sure if there is a way to measure this, but our doping convictions seen to be way above international norm.

 

You could use convictions per test, or even convictions per UCI points and I think we have got a lot.

 

Does this mean our doping offices are better (it's a space race, and I'd say Dr Jeroen and co are probably smarter than the athletes)?

Does this mean our athletes just dope more?

 

It's hard to ignore the epic results(if you take out Burry as an outlier). It's in our own backyard, yet we get routinely spanked by international riders. Despite this, many of our best guys are doping and the better international dudes aren't.

[Vetplant]

Mr Wakefield, that is a strong statement to make. I hope for your sake you are not proven wrong.

We have seen the rise and fall of so many in SA cycling, that it's almost no surprise when a rider gets bust. Max and Croeser springs to mind, personally I thought these two kinda was the last straw for me, to think that doping is not a requirement to get to the top echelon of cycling.

 

I hold no rider in such regard that they will "disapoint" me when caught doping, just like I am not disapointed or surprised when a politician is exposed for corruption. It's almost expected these days.

Cannot agree more!

 

That does not only apply to cycling for me, but all sports. We shouldn't put these guys on pedestals as our hero's, we only stand to be disappointed.

 

And again, agreeing with your politicians statement, they also don't deserve the pedestals they are placed upon by the media and society. See them for the conniving jackals they really are, because they cannot reach the top by being straightforward and honest, the game isn't played that way. Think about honest car-dealers, they just don't survive...

[Cav']

Apparently there was NO dope testing at SA road champs for any  category  ...

Can anyone confirm if that was true ??

That's correct, a pity too after John Céna won one of the Vets Category's.

[Mudsimus]

That's correct, a pity too after John Céna won one of the Vets Category's.

Could you see him?

[Patchelicious]

That's correct, a pity too after John Céna won one of the Vets Category's.

You talking about the guy who punches people at the DC?

[Jewbacca]

In a life filled with many experiences, I tend to think that if it seems like it, it probably is. So in cycling I kind of reckon that it's just a matter of time before they all get caught, either during or after their careers.

 

I'm not as vehement as swint&aero, but too many 'good people' have been caught doing silly things after blatantly lying about it for years... good people. pffft

 

As for the pedestal, I don't think good sportsers are particularly good role models at all. Their view on life is skewed. A better role model is a guy who works hard, is successful and lives a balanced life while staying positive. A guy who has put himself through varsity and bought a house and has a wonderful loving family and stability. Both older, with the ability to retrospect and have actual 'life' experience.

 

An athlete usually retires by 35ish and lets be honest, that is still a child in the game of life especially when most (not all) have limited education or experience anyone can relate to, so hanging on their words and deeds is pretty lost.

 

In my mind, if people want someone to look up to it should be those who actually make a difference to fellow man, not those who can sports well or act well or kick a ball well.

[Geronimo]

In a life filled with many experiences, I tend to think that if it seems like it, it probably is. So in cycling I kind of reckon that it's just a matter of time before they all get caught, either during or after their careers.

 

I'm not as vehement as swint&aero, but too many 'good people' have been caught doing silly things after blatantly lying about it for years... good people. pffft

 

As for the pedestal, I don't think good sportsers are particularly good role models at all. Their view on life is skewed. A better role model is a guy who works hard, is successful and lives a balanced life while staying positive. A guy who has put himself through varsity and bought a house and has a wonderful loving family and stability. Both older, with the ability to retrospect and have actual 'life' experience.

 

An athlete usually retires by 35ish and lets be honest, that is still a child in the game of life especially when most (not all) have limited education or experience anyone can relate to, so hanging on their words and deeds is pretty lost.

 

In my mind, if people want someone to look up to it should be those who actually make a difference to fellow man, not those who can sports well or act well or kick a ball well.

 

So the youngsters got to look up to us hard working honest living ballies   

[J Wakefield]

Mr Wakefield, that is a strong statement to make. I hope for your sake you are not proven wrong.

We have seen the rise and fall of so many in SA cycling, that it's almost no surprise when a rider gets bust. Max and Croeser springs to mind, personally I thought these two kinda was the last straw for me, to think that doping is not a requirement to get to the top echelon of cycling.

 

I hold no rider in such regard that they will "disapoint" me when caught doping, just like I am not disapointed or surprised when a politician is exposed for corruption. It's almost expected these days.

 

 

Thats why every person in this world is unique, you have your views and beliefs that I will respect and then,  I have mine.

 

I will stand firmly on my statement above for many reasons. 

 

On a side question which is addressed to a few of you with a similar view: Why are you even watching, following and the likes of bike racing if this is the view you have? Should you not then find something else you "believe" in? Not a jab, a genuine question. Like for arguments sake I think WWF wrestling is a fake show and for that I don't follow or watch it.

Edited March 13, 2019 by J Wakefield

[RocknRolla]

Thats why every person in this world is unique, you have your views and beliefs that I will respect and then,  I have mine.

 

I will stand firmly on my statement above for many reasons. 

 

On a side question which is addressed to a few of you with a similar view: Why are you even watching, following and the likes of bike racing if this is the view you have? Should you not then find something else you "believe" in? Not a jab, a genuine question. Like for arguments sake I think WWF wrestling is a fake show and for that I don't follow or watch it.

 

 

To answer your question, I don't.

I ride motorcycle, but I have no idea whats happening or even who is riding SBK or MotoGP. 

Most sport I watch is Cricket, but mostly for the good times and banter with mates at the stadium. Not on TV. I don't watch any other sport. 

 

Cycling is done for the enjoyment, I have never had any illusions of reaching the top echelon, not even in my cat. Like Jewbaca says, it's of far better taking everyday people, who we as individuals interact with daily, and saying, I should be more compassionate like so-and-so or calm and collected in stressfull circumstances like whatsitsface.

 

We never get a holistic picture of people in the spotlight, we only see the sliver of their life. We take that one piece of "wow" and assign it to every aspect of that person's life, little do we know what goes on in their mind. it's human nature to want to be like the best, to feel a sense of belonging.

 

Edit: I hold your opinion very highly, and have nothing but respect for taking a stand like you do. It says a lot.

Edited March 13, 2019 by RocknRolla

[Gen]

 

 

Thats why every person in this world is unique, you have your views and beliefs that I will respect and then, I have mine.

 

I will stand firmly on my statement above for many reasons.

 

On a side question which is addressed to a few of you with a similar view: Why are you even watching, following and the likes of bike racing if this is the view you have? Should you not then find something else you "believe" in? Not a jab, a genuine question. Like for arguments sake I think WWF wrestling is a fake show and for that I don't follow or watch it.

Just because we aren't naive about the sport and its history and the tendency for it to be repeated (or any sport) doesn't mean we don't still enjoy the sport.

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[T-Bob]

I think WWF wrestling is a fake show and for that I don't follow or watch it.

 

WHAT??? Forget the rest of this thread there is some dream crushing words there. Not sure what has driven you to this is but I won't believe it. I just won't. 

[J Wakefield]

To answer your question, I don't.

I ride motorcycle, but I have no idea whats happening or even who is riding SBK or MotoGP. 

Most sport I watch is Cricket, but mostly for the good times and banter with mates at the stadium. Not on TV. I don't watch any other sport. 

 

Cycling is done for the enjoyment, I have never had any illusions of reaching the top echelon, not even in my cat. Like Jewbaca says, it's of far better taking everyday people, who we as individuals interact with daily, and saying, I should be more compassionate like so-and-so or calm and collected in stressfull circumstances like whatsitsface.

 

We never get a holistic picture of people in the spotlight, we only see the sliver of their life. We take that one piece of "wow" and assign it to every aspect of that person's life, little do we know what goes on in their mind. it's human nature to want to be like the best, to feel a sense of belonging.

 

Edit: I hold your opinion very highly, and have nothing but respect for taking a stand like you do. It says a lot.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say, I really do but the overall view from public vs actuality is often very different and that is yes, maybe cause info, facts and knowledge isn't freely available (for reasons) one is left to make up their own minds based off what is available. that is totally natural. 

 

I don't know what the answer is, I also am not sure there is one as some info is private for many reasons, often for the better but it leaves that self diagnosis which is often dangerous.

 

Athletes / people will always cheat, that is human nature but I will say that things are not like they were back then regardless of current positives and the likes, there will always be those few but it is harder now.

 

Cycling also is actually and believe it or not, one of the cleaner sporting codes  when you look at test vs positive ratio. The issue is that with cycling its spat all over the news due to the history. In a way its good cause they not hiding things.

 

Anyway, I need to try get 7 guys at Tirreno- Adriatico to do a TTT in the rain at 14:55 (15:55 SA Time) and run but thanks all for the chat and shout for the team!! (shout nice things though)

 

over n out.

[J Wakefield]

WHAT??? Forget the rest of this thread there is some dream crushing words there. Not sure what has driven you to this is but I won't believe it. I just won't. 

 

Sorry Bro though you knew? I won't mentioned Santa than either.

[DieselnDust]

Just because we aren't naive about the sport and its history and the tendency for it to be repeated (or any sport) doesn't mean we don't still enjoy the sport.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Just because we aren't naive about the sport and its history and the tendency for it to be repeated (or any sport) doesn't mean we don't still enjoy the sport.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

 

So it’s like going to church but not believing in God/Jesus/Allah etc.....?

[Andymann]

I reckon Zwift should take altitude into account and make a compensation for us who live up high. The air in my garage is thinner than the air in some dudes garage who lives at -10m in Den Haag

The air in my garage smells of Thinners.  Does that constitute doping?

[RocknRolla]

The air in my garage smells of Thinners.  Does that constitute doping?

 

 

May explain the feeling of "flying up the hills"

 

As for the guys in Den haag, I really feel for them, they go ride 130 odd kms' and get like 100m elevation gain. I go for my local quick 30k ride and get 400m...