How do you justify a Cape Epic entry?

[Shebeen]

6 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

A super over priced bike race in the Cape benefits me nothing though. I'm not sure if there's any trickle down technology from the Epic to the local Trailseeker. 

look they don't build as much trails as i think they should, but it's undeniable how large the knock on effects for the local bike and tourism industries are.

 

https://www.news24.com/sport/othersport/cycling/uci-mountain-bike-wc-to-boost-the-capes-economy-20180227

Quote

Cape Town - Cycling events in the Cape already boost the economy to the tune of more than R1 billion per annum, and 2018 sees an inaugural race taking place in Stellenbosch, the UCI World Cup series is kicking off the season there for the first time.

These events collectively attract thousands of local and international competitors and their supporters, who often spend extended stays in the destination, so it's imperative that big sporting events continue, albeit with renewed focus on saving water.

ah crap, found this trying to google the benefits. a full on researchpaper!

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309548305_The_ABSA_Cape_Epic_Mountain_Bike_Challenge_impacts_and_legacies

this will answer a lot of the questions on affordability

[The Ouzo]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

without competition we'd still be swimming in the sea

but is it for the better.

Sure we live longer and many things are supposed to be making our lives easier, but we're also stuffing things up catastrophically.  So surely if we remained swimming in the sea with a life expectancy of 5 years everything would be better ?

Makes for a hell of a philosophical conversation.

[Skubarra]

Cool thread. One also has to say not all entrants are rich, CEO's or riding on sponsorships there quite a number of "middle class" people without tons of disposable income who pay their own way even if they have to beg, borrow, steal to get the money to do this event (some of them more than once). It's hard to understand exactly what motivate people to do that (as opposed to the all expenses paid bike trip to Europe with which the price tag is often compared to)

Don't have the answers but I guess it is a bucket list thing given its very high profile and the opportunity to ride "alongside" pros & other cyclists from all over the world. Not a question that is easy to ask people who are doing it without sounding like a jealous ass..

[DieselnDust]

21 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

look they don't build as much trails as i think they should, but it's undeniable how large the knock on effects for the local bike and tourism industries are.

 

https://www.news24.com/sport/othersport/cycling/uci-mountain-bike-wc-to-boost-the-capes-economy-20180227

 

Agreed,  the size of the trail network in CoCT has grown from around 80km in 2005 to nearly 400km by 2015. That's x5 more trails thanks to the explosion of MTB fuelled by the ABSA Cape Epic event coming to fruition.

I'm sure this can be quantified into jobs and contribution to the tourism industry. The above does not include the Drakenstein or Overberg network of trails which would push the trail km's to somewhere around 1000km.

BUT....this does not answer the question around how people justify participation at the current cost of entry.

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

look they don't build as much trails as i think they should, but it's undeniable how large the knock on effects for the local bike and tourism industries are.

 

https://www.news24.com/sport/othersport/cycling/uci-mountain-bike-wc-to-boost-the-capes-economy-20180227

ah crap, found this trying to google the benefits. a full on researchpaper!

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309548305_The_ABSA_Cape_Epic_Mountain_Bike_Challenge_impacts_and_legacies

this will answer a lot of the questions on affordability

 

Nothing proves more how the target market for the event has changed to cater more for the captains of industry than this graph. Thanks

 

 

25 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

Not to drag this out more, but the big factor in the R&D discussion that hasn't been mentioned (I don't think) is that cutting edge R&D is craaaaaaazy expensive. Like stupid expensive. Like a gold plated S-Works being sold by a 1 poster on the classifieds expensive.... For every finished product we see, they've made loads and loads of prototypes, failed 100s of experiments and spent 1000s of engineering hours. And typically the R&D engineers at an F1 team or wherever will be among the top experts in their field globally, so will be getting paid top dollar for those hours. 

And someone has to pay for those development costs, someone has to fund the failed attempts to improve each component - none of which have any return on investment. The ROI calculation on Mercedes developing the technology for a fancy new super efficient engine is never ever going to balance if they want to recoup those costs by putting them in the new C class and waiting for enough cars to sell. They'd have to triple or quadruple the price of every car. So instead they fund their R&D through motorsport with sponsor money and by selling a "team" or a driver to fans rather than an engine to consumers. 

Anyway, my 2c. I don't watch any racing other than bike racing and don't follow any of these things, but I'm so grateful that F1 exists, delusional billionaires have aimless space races, Samsung and iPhone have crazed fanboys that will pay stupid prices for a new phone every time it launches even though they have a perfect phone in their pocket, etc etc etc. Because of all of these those wonderful loons, I have a better car, a better phone, and most importantly - a better bike. 

A super over priced bike race in the Cape benefits me nothing though. I'm not sure if there's any trickle down technology from the Epic to the local Trailseeker. 

 

Events like Cape Epic don't contribute to bicycle development I agree. In the formative years everyone rode 26er hardtails, then 26er Full suspension bikes and all of these were bikes developed for the UCI XCO WC series and UCI XCM series. Specialized launched the Epic in 2003 and the Cap EPic name was registered in the same year but Specialized would have registered the trademark in 2002 already. The two would be unrelated other than through Co-incidence of name. Even in 2021 the XCO sytle bike is conceived more for the demands placed on the rider over an 80-90min race and not so much for a 8 day stage race.

trail bikes are developed for a different market although technically they are more suited to an 8 day stage race  for the layman than an XC machine. The choice of weapon however is driven more by association to the pro's rather than a practical fit for purpose criteria. Trail bike also tend to have one bottle cage so they're inferior in concept already. More so those with horizontal shocks.

The Cape Epic also hasn't had an impact on the materials used for MTB construction. No Aerospace grades are used, instead commercial grades of Carbon fibre are common and just zooted up in the marketing. In fact the marketing material is the most sophisticated aspect of any new MTB.

I take away is that people justify their entry to the Cape Epic because its the biggest baddest, toughest, longest, most extreme MTB race and therefore by association this extends to themselves at a personal level. The swagger of an Epic finisher the week after the event is unmistakable (usually due to healing saddle sores)  as is their elevated aire of self importance. Some come back down to earth but others are forever changed and become the Voices of the Epic to be quoted in publications for as long as they have something positive to say. 

generally its still all about raising your own perceived profile i.e. to become legends in ones own mind. But lets no mock. being a legend in your own mind is important for a healthy ego within limits

So Chapeau to all riding 2021, you legends you

[MTBeer]

14 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Agreed,  the size of the trail network in CoCT has grown from around 80km in 2005 to nearly 400km by 2015. That's x5 more trails thanks to the explosion of MTB fuelled by the ABSA Cape Epic event coming to fruition.

I'm sure this can be quantified into jobs and contribution to the tourism industry. The above does not include the Drakenstein or Overberg network of trails which would push the trail km's to somewhere around 1000km.

BUT....this does not answer the question around how people justify participation at the current cost of entry.

 

 

 

 

Nothing proves more how the target market for the event has changed to cater more for the captains of industry than this graph. Thanks

 

 

 

Events like Cape Epic don't contribute to bicycle development I agree. In the formative years everyone rode 26er hardtails, then 26er Full suspension bikes and all of these were bikes developed for the UCI XCO WC series and UCI XCM series. Specialized launched the Epic in 2003 and the Cap EPic name was registered in the same year but Specialized would have registered the trademark in 2002 already. The two would be unrelated other than through Co-incidence of name. Even in 2021 the XCO sytle bike is conceived more for the demands placed on the rider over an 80-90min race and not so much for a 8 day stage race.

trail bikes are developed for a different market although technically they are more suited to an 8 day stage race  for the layman than an XC machine. The choice of weapon however is driven more by association to the pro's rather than a practical fit for purpose criteria. Trail bike also tend to have one bottle cage so they're inferior in concept already. More so those with horizontal shocks.

The Cape Epic also hasn't had an impact on the materials used for MTB construction. No Aerospace grades are used, instead commercial grades of Carbon fibre are common and just zooted up in the marketing. In fact the marketing material is the most sophisticated aspect of any new MTB.

I take away is that people justify their entry to the Cape Epic because its the biggest baddest, toughest, longest, most extreme MTB race and therefore by association this extends to themselves at a personal level. The swagger of an Epic finisher the week after the event is unmistakable (usually due to healing saddle sores)  as is their elevated aire of self importance. Some come back down to earth but others are forever changed and become the Voices of the Epic to be quoted in publications for as long as they have something positive to say. 

generally its still all about raising your own perceived profile i.e. to become legends in ones own mind. But lets no mock. being a legend in your own mind is important for a healthy ego within limits

So Chapeau to all riding 2021, you legends you

How do you come to that conclusion?

I mean the bit about fuelled by the Epic

Edited September 9, 2021 by MTBeer

[MORNE]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

not even close.

 

Not that it matters but in your haste to try and be right, you are misinterpreting your google pulled graphic lol. ALOT of those exist to fuel other industries. its rather a cumulative number of all those. Steel, energy, chemicals, manufacturing, transport, energy use, waste emissions etc etc are all part of the sum. You have to look at it that way.

https://environmentjournal.online/articles/emissions-from-the-construction-industry-reach-highest-levels/

https://architecture2030.org/why-the-building-sector/

Edited September 9, 2021 by MORNE

[ChrisF]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

look they don't build as much trails as i think they should, but it's undeniable how large the knock on effects for the local bike and tourism industries are.

 

https://www.news24.com/sport/othersport/cycling/uci-mountain-bike-wc-to-boost-the-capes-economy-20180227

 

The Stanford two day race uses Epic trails in that area .... doubt much of this would be maintained without the Epic.

 

 

Pretty sure many linking farms only got involved due to the Epic team.

 

 

Doubt we will ever truly understand the extent of the spin offs us weekend warriors (and e-bike crawlers) get to use due to the Epic , W2W, etc organisers.

 

 

Okay, enough gratitude .... let's get back to bashing these business men for building an empire out of our hobby ...

[ChrisF]

55 minutes ago, ouzo said:

....

Makes for a hell of a philosophical conversation.

"K@kpraat.doc" was the file name of my philosophy paper .....

 

 

 

Though I may admit that it taught me to listen to other perspectives without "sacrificing my believes", nor having to always persaude others to my believes ....

[DIPSLICK]

we here debating the costs vs rewards vs value, Kevin looking at his bank balance saying  "Feed them cake"

grappie grappie 

  simple supply and demand clearly we wrong 

[Spafsack]

On a side note, do you think there is still a chance to get into the media village, race village, in this epic. We have sponsored a certain team with branding. Would be amazing if we could get footage, pics, vids and so on. But the website says not so.. 

[Walie I am]

Its CLEARLY for the "ELITE RIDERS", ONLY!!!!!

Us mere mortals can go find a TRAIL some where to play in...

[dave303e]

23 hours ago, Shebeen said:

munga is a like R25k. and you get some really nice waterpoints but that's it.. if you're trying to avoid the hype and dick swinging then you're barking up the wrong street there.

(freedom circuit is probably the best value proposition in my mind currently - R6k for a 700km course that is pun intendedly epic https://www.freedomcircuit.com/event-info)

and yet it is still cheaper to fly to Kirgizstan and race silk road...

On 9/8/2021 at 9:55 AM, Jewbacca said:

On that, if you run, why do you need to be a 'real' runner? If you ride bikes, why do you need to be a 'real' cyclist?

I run a lot, I ride bikes a lot. I don't regard myself as a 'real' cyclist or runner. I am a passable hack at best. 

'Real' athletes are so far above me in the food chain it is scary

Bru, 200 milers don't count if you haven't run a Comrades, we all know that.

20 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

I'm one of those people who is gobsmacked that car companies build Family cars and People carriers that can exceed the speed limit. I hate driving, I hate loud noises, I think all cars that don't just get you from A to B are absolutely stupid and I am not impressed by how quickly things go.

I think motor sport is absolutely stupid, I think space travel is even more futile and seeing Bezos and That other idiot have a space race was probably one of the most pointless, wasteful things I have ever had to listen to people get excited about.

Nothing you say about it will change my mind. I raced cars, I rode motorbikes, I drove a diesel oil dispenser.... It's 100% unnecessary.

I am big enough to say 'I was wrong, these things shouldn't exist in todays environment and like slavery and gender assumption should be put out to pasture with all the other popular past times and triviality of a bygone era'..... 

Not all motorsport, take how much Audi and the likes learned at le mans going to fuel efficient diesel hybrids. For me that is not all a waste as a lot of that tech is transferrable to the open market. That tech can go into cleaner trucks

[SwissVan]

23 hours ago, MORNE said:

yea but only because you live in a country that punishes the highest polluters at the point of purchase...so it is in your best interest to rather drive a Honda than a Lambo Huracan LOL, everybody knows the swiss hate fast cars and motorsport. is it still banned there btw?

EDIT: i see you are allowed to dragrace electric cars atleast now 

PS..for those that dont know. motorsport has been banned it Switzerland since 1955 

Tbh I did not know motorsport is banned… I don’t know of any official race tracks for cars., but I’ve seen various hill climb road races advertised, and then driving 90km a day I see plenty of aspiring racers…. Who think slip streaming is cool ????

The king of all sports / motorsport is allowed, motocross and have seen various Mx tracks around and even been to watch a mx world championship race here. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by SwissVan

[Pure Savage]

Sho, been sent the link to this thead three times must give it a read. One of the only platforms I am not blocked by the "Epic"

Edited September 9, 2021 by Pure Savage

[Pure Savage]

On 9/8/2021 at 8:51 AM, DieselnDust said:

 

nah its all about the Richard...it really is.

For a small proportion of the field its about the challenge, the fun of racing 8 days straight going as hard as you can till you blow and repeat the next day.

For the majority its about being a member of an exclusive club and that's it. Once some have the (controversial in other threads) medal their self perceived status is elevated to that of "real Mountainbiker"

Has always felt like the challenge was to survive 8 days and not poop your guts out. 

[Jewbacca]

1 minute ago, Pure Savage said:

Sho, been sent the link to this thead three times must give it a read. One of the only platforms I am not blocked by the "Epic"

Why have they blocked you? Are you the Kieffie George to their Mark Chopper Reid?