Coronavirus lockdown and exercising outdoors

[Duane_Bosch]

Okay, so COCT is a single District municipality, and the cop was acting outside of the guidelines. 

 

Cool. I was wrong. Amended my posts accordingly. She should be able to get it squashed.

Sorry for being so vociferous. Not aimed at you specifically. And I suppose we're all guilty of inadvertently accepting something that is not true to be the truth and going with that.

 

I predict that when this all ends there's going to be a blanket amnesty for these fines that the police hand out for rules that they seem to make up on the fly

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Sorry for being so vociferous. Not aimed at you specifically. And I suppose we're all guilty of inadvertently accepting something that is not true to be the truth and going with that.

 

I predict that when this all ends there's going to be a blanket amnesty for these fines that the police hand out for rules that they seem to make up on the fly

It's all good, man. ???????????????? And likewise

 

Agreed on the last bit, too.

[Let's Ride]

Have a friend who was fined R5 000 as they were stopped by the police and they went to a PnP that wasn't the closest one to them. The officer actually google mapped it and all. Try pulling that trick on me.... 

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Let's Ride

[dave303e]

I reckon that the courts are going to be very busy sorting out cases like this - those fines equate to criminal records.

Not to mention the wrongful arrests and police brutality cases.

 

My real caution around this all is professional bodies and criminal records. A lot of professional bodies will take it seriously and revoke professional status/registration. In our house we are 2 professionals who could lose a fair amount so it is in our long term career interests to keep noses clean.

[ChrisF]

Have a friend who was fined R5 000 as they were stopped by the police and they went to a PnP that wasn't the closest one to them. The officer actually google mapped it and all. Try pulling that trick on me.... 

 

 

 

I will admit I also thought we were to use the shop closest to home ...

 

NOT sure if this part of the talks during the initial lock down.  May well be because of all the European rules\guidelines we were reading at the time .... 

 

But I DO recall the "concept" of shopping closest to home.  And it IS one of those concepts that do make sense.

 

Practically .... I go food shopping about every 10 days .... often I end up stopping at 3 or 4 stores, for no reason other than shops being out of stock of essential items.  Last week I stopped at 6 shops before getting any bread.  By that time I was at least two shops past my house ....

 

 

 

Arguing with a cop on a power trip ..... BAD IDEA !  I will show my receipts, point out I am driving further, and then sign whatever he wants - my dashcam IS recording it all, and it is safer to resolve later.

 

 

PS - NOT aimed at Let's Ride, as this reply is equally applicable to so many posts on the previous pages .....

[ChrisF]

Wearing of masks ....

 

To the best of my knowledge Gazette 43258 regarding Level 4 was the last published one regarding this.

 

The Police memorandum is an internal document only, and does NOT override the Gazette.

 

Three provinces have already published their fine structures for Covid related offences .... They have the OPTION to attach a fine to a transgression of the Gazetted items, or to make it a warning item only.

 

So what does the Gazette actually say about masks :

 

 

5(1) refers to a "public place" ..... NATIONAL BUILDING REGULATIONS AND BUILDING STANDARDS ACT NO. 103 OF 1977 refers to doors leading from buildings "to a street or public place..." It also provides this definition -

 

 

 

The Gazette caries on in 5(2) to speak of public transport and being inside a building place or premises .....

 

 

So basically this means you are in one of THREE "places" :

1) Public place ... wear a mask

2) Inside a building, place or premises .... wear a mask

3) in your own home or yard ... do as you please ....

 

 

The reality is, it is unenforcible law .... every second person will claim asthma or some lung condition that makes it impossible for them to wear the mask .... possibly why the police memo decided to not enforce it.

 

 

 

 

Let's for one moment forget the "letter of the law" .... is there truly anybody on the Hub as thick headed as Trump ? WHY would you want to not wear a mask ? Because it offers little to no protection to YOU ? PLEASE consider the fact that YOU wearing a mask offers protection to ME and the next person that would appreciate your consideration.

 

 

 

I sure as heck dont like the masks .... but out of respect for my fellow man and woman do wear a mask when walking out my front door. I dot need some arb laws guide me when it is this obvious how easy it is to protect others around me.

Edited May 12, 2020 by ChrisF

[tinmug]

Spot on Chris. 

[Pieter-za]

I reckon that the courts are going to be very busy sorting out cases like this - those fines equate to criminal records.

Not to mention the wrongful arrests and police brutality cases.

The recommendation is to NOT pay the fine but to get legal advice and to go to court, as correctly stated,paying might / will leave one with a criminal record.

 

Also see https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/lockdown-fine-means-a-criminal-record-20200421

 

(My bold - that is apparently the principle of the matter which the court will have to decide on.)

 

 

Rogers advised that if one is issued with an admission of guilt fine, one should get legal advice before admitting to anything.

“I had a client who was stopped while going to the dentist. She told the officers where she was going and they confirmed her appointment. However, police said the dentist was not supposed to be open. My client was arrested”.

He added that some police officers seem to be misunderstanding their own regulations and the limits of their powers.

“The burden of proof in a criminal matter remains on the state, that is, the State must prove you breached the regulations without good cause or justification,” he said.

[Robbie Stewart]

And? She went out and deliberately chose something far away from her residence and hoped she wouldn't get caught out. 

 

Why shouldn't she have been fined?

 

EDIT: Well, COCT is a single district. Therefore she was within her rights, in terms of the regulations, and I'm now of hte opinion that she could have that squashed. 

 

 

I find it rather amusing how people abusing the law knowingly then put themselves as victims of the police whose job is to enforce the said laws... Like that idiot paddling on a bench in muizenberg...

 

 

to clarify. I am not moaning at what she did, whether it was right or wrong. I am saying that these days folks are getting roughed up by the cops. I should perhaps have put the two points in separate posts but I was too lazy and typing this while sitting in a Teams meeting that was droning on and on and on...

 

She must've known what she did was not legal, she chanced it, she got caught. End van prent. She must now pay the fine. 

 

I am not saying the cops were wrong in this instance.

 

BUT...arresting a parent who collected his toddler of the beach, or playing tug of war with a dad and his child, just to enforce lockdown regulations. THAT is the police state I am referring to.

 

I did a drive from Sunningdale to Klapmust on Lockdown day 1 to go buy some meat. I knew I was probably in the wrong, but I decided to chance it. It worked, that time. I have refused to do anything remotely as stupid since. I have only been to the shops once since. I have done about 5 rides since we are allowed. Twice I ventured slightly out of my ring by less than a kilometer.

[Kranswurm]

to clarify. I am not moaning at what she did, whether it was right or wrong. I am saying that these days folks are getting roughed up by the cops. I should perhaps have put the two points in separate posts but I was too lazy and typing this while sitting in a Teams meeting that was droning on and on and on...

 

She must've known what she did was not legal, she chanced it, she got caught. End van prent. She must now pay the fine. 

 

I am not saying the cops were wrong in this instance.

 

BUT...arresting a parent who collected his toddler of the beach, or playing tug of war with a dad and his child, just to enforce lockdown regulations. THAT is the police state I am referring to.

 

I did a drive from Sunningdale to Klapmust on Lockdown day 1 to go buy some meat. I knew I was probably in the wrong, but I decided to chance it. It worked, that time. I have refused to do anything remotely as stupid since. I have only been to the shops once since. I have done about 5 rides since we are allowed. Twice I ventured slightly out of my ring by less than a kilometer.

You should have been arrested,roughed up,thrown in the van,spent a couple of nights in choekie and fined R5K.End van prent.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

BUT...arresting a parent who collected his toddler of the beach, or playing tug of war with a dad and his child, just to enforce lockdown regulations. THAT is the police state I am referring to.

 

I'm 100% in agreement with you there. 

[RocknRolla]

"end van prent" Lol, what a gem, haven't heard that in a while.

[DieselnDust]

And? She went out and deliberately chose something far away from her residence and hoped she wouldn't get caught out. 

 

Why shouldn't she have been fined?

 

EDIT: Well, COCT is a single district. Therefore she was within her rights, in terms of the regulations, and I'm now of hte opinion that she could have that squashed. 

 

 

Exactly. Extreme overreaching by authorities trying to bully the public into respecting them. 

That fine will get thrown out of court  as will may others so the revenue supplementation isn't going to work

[DieselnDust]

BTW.

 

I coined the phrase perimeter of death/ perimeter of treason which I see is now being widely used on this site.

 

My pleasure.

 

 

So lets abbreviate it to PoT. Then. I went out for my PoT has a good odour

[MORNE]

Well my new standard 50km route is out of Obz onto main road - up past SACS and Forries - down paradise road (I'm 80m outside my 5k at this point) back into Claremont, past Newlands cricket ground onto Campground to smash it to Old Church street where I turn right and then up Roodebloem, down through Walmer Estate, District 6, back along main road and up mountain road into Walmer estate again and down Roodebloem, Salt River, Voortrekker Road, Pinelands, Jan Smuts past Langa and then Sportsman's Rondebosch, out through Newlands again, Western Province cricket club, and back to Obz - 50km and about 500m ascent. 

 

Not too many other zombies. If I feel nervous about the full Jan Smuts loop, I can smash straight down Forest drive.

 

 

Thanks again for this      

Did most of it this morning and managed 40km in about 90 minutes. I skipped Voortrekker and went into pinelands via Forest Rd.

Pretty pleasant ride...except for main road going to newlands, but even that wasn't too bad due to the lack of traffic and parked cars at the moment. 

[TNT1]

It's relatively easy for me.

 

They say 5 kms, I stick within in. Why? because for now it minimizes risk.

 

Ride with a form of identification (Id card in my case) 

 

How does 5km radius from home minimise risk?

 

Not born in this country, so can't get ID card. Even so, my fiancee has ID card, her address is not on it.