Bloody drunkard

[The Ouzo]

I was in SA a while back and went to a braai with my wife’s brother and his wife at a friend of theirs’ house. My sister in law had been tri training for a few months and had been off the booze, but was drinking on that night. The non stop comments about how much better she was now she was drinking, what a loser she had been when she wasn’t drinking etc were surprising to say the least. Even when I and her 9 year old son had to help her to the car as she was so pissed, as was my BIL, the group was still laughing and joking etc. They were also shocked then that I left my car and drove these guys home as I hadn’t been drinking. The next day there was a post mortem Over a breakfast with the same crowd. The only negative comments about the night were levelled at me because I didn’t drink (I enjoy a drink but had a long flight the next day). Nobody thought it odd that a group of educated, wealthy people had spent the night drinking to oblivion whilst their kids played in the garden around them. I reflected on all the times when we lived in SA that drinking to excess was just part of the culture, whereas in twenty odd years of living in other countries, I have never been part of a community where that is seen as a regular thing.

 

When we were young in SA, I was as bad as anyone else with drinking and driving and drinking stupid volumes of alcohol. The thing that most surprised me was that these were all people in their late forties partying like we did when we were in our early twenties.

whilst your avatar obviously is aimed at cycling, its also very apt for the current discussion and attitude toward drinking in this country.

[MTBeer]

reading these last couple of pages, I realise what nice friends and family I have.

[Robbie Stewart]

I was in SA a while back and went to a braai with my wife’s brother and his wife at a friend of theirs’ house. My sister in law had been tri training for a few months and had been off the booze, but was drinking on that night. The non stop comments about how much better she was now she was drinking, what a loser she had been when she wasn’t drinking etc were surprising to say the least. Even when I and her 9 year old son had to help her to the car as she was so pissed, as was my BIL, the group was still laughing and joking etc. They were also shocked then that I left my car and drove these guys home as I hadn’t been drinking. The next day there was a post mortem Over a breakfast with the same crowd. The only negative comments about the night were levelled at me because I didn’t drink (I enjoy a drink but had a long flight the next day). Nobody thought it odd that a group of educated, wealthy people had spent the night drinking to oblivion whilst their kids played in the garden around them. I reflected on all the times when we lived in SA that drinking to excess was just part of the culture, whereas in twenty odd years of living in other countries, I have never been part of a community where that is seen as a regular thing.

 

When we were young in SA, I was as bad as anyone else with drinking and driving and drinking stupid volumes of alcohol. The thing that most surprised me was that these were all people in their late forties partying like we did when we were in our early twenties.

 

Any asshole that calls me a loser for not drinking is not worth time and effort to befriend. I have been quietly left out of braai invites over the years by mates due to me having at most 2 beers at a braai, and being a "spoil sport". I am not fazed, and over the years we have lost contact. I do not spend time with people that are so narrow minded to think that you need to be intoxicated to live. I move one, they stay behind.

 

20 years later, they're still children trapped in overweight, morbidly obese bodies, at risk of Covid-19 co-morbidities.

 

Maar hey, gooi nog een pappa, met eish ja. Met eish.

[Bub Marley]

Any asshole that calls me a loser for not drinking is not worth time and effort to befriend. I have been quietly left out of braai invites over the years by mates due to me having at most 2 beers at a braai, and being a "spoil sport". I am not fazed, and over the years we have lost contact. I do not spend time with people that are so narrow minded to think that you need to be intoxicated to live. I move one, they stay behind.

 

20 years later, they're still children trapped in overweight, morbidly obese bodies, at risk of Covid-19 co-morbidities.

 

Maar hey, gooi nog een pappa, met eish ja. Met eish.

I think you need new friends if your current ones are calling you a loser for not drinking. 

[dev null]

My dad many, many years ago when I was a small dude, was overlooked for promotion because he refused to join the Piss Up Club at work. He was miffed at it because he genuinely loved working there otherwise.

 

He left that job soon afterwards, as he clearly got the message.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Moridin

[Mojoman]

My dad many, many years ago when I was a small dude, was overlooked for promotion because he refused to join the Piss Up Club at work. He was miffed at it because he genuinely loved working there otherwise.

 

He left that job soon afterwards, as he clearly got the message.

My dad suffered a bit on the mines in the 80s and 90s as he didn't really drink and was the odd one out (and English to boot).

Edited June 19, 2020 by Mojoman

[daniemare]

May I dare to suggest another approach as Banning alcohol outright brings so many other unintended consequences. (Like for instance increased gang violence, especially in suburbs currently not affected)

 

I would rather like to see less jail time and more public humiliation. Hear me out. All the posts above tells of a sort of social acceptance and childish coolness of drinking. How better then to see a convicted drunk driver on his knees in his orange jumpsuit in a public bathroom cleaning toilets every weekend. Managing bed pans at an old age home. It can be a Public/Private partnership with businesses serious about addressing this scourge. Sharing the admin burden.

 

I find jail time problematic. We force the law abiding society, and the direct victims, to foot these idiots’ board and logging through our taxes. Here they are out of sight and out of mind, not serving any reminder of the consequences. We unfortunately also punish the kids of these idiots without a parent or at least the financial support.

 

So I say, let them continue to work. Forfeight their full estate to the government and pay 100% tax on their earnings. Let them receive a stipend from this to maintain a pre-defined standard of living, unrelated to the one they had before the crime. Residual can go to the affected family or alcoholic treatment programs.

 

On Friday’s you spend a night in local police cell as that comes with it’s own punishment. And weekends and some weeknights you work a job where the public can see you and invariably insult you. No holidays or travel. Daily Facebook and social media posts by the perpetrator stating that he/she was responsible for the death/injury to x.

 

Essentially you must remain tax positive and serve as a public example. If not - then of to jail.

 

Bottom line - we have a societal problem. We need to change attitudes. And rotting away in jail (if it happens) does not facilitate this.

 

PS. Some people must be removed from society, so this is not a blanket argument for all crimes.

Edited June 19, 2020 by daniemare

[Stretch]

reading these last couple of pages, I realise what nice friends and family I have.

My group of mates going around the world mostly enjoy their grog... In fact our zoom calls include a few beers. The one mate went through a bit of a patch and was drinking very heavily. He pulled through and is now off the booze. No one even bats an eyelid.. We just carry on like normal. We still enjoy a drink and laugh about the old times and he joins in with a cup of coffee. I'm very thankful about the mates I have

[Vetplant]

May I dare to suggest another approach as Banning alcohol outright brings so many other unintended consequences. (Like for instance increased gang violence, especially in suburbs currently not affected)

 

I would rather like to see less jail time and more public humiliation. Hear me out. All the posts above tells of a sort of social acceptance and childish coolness of drinking. How better then to see a convicted drunk driver on his knees in his orange jumpsuit in a public bathroom cleaning toilets every weekend. Managing bed pans at an old age home. It can be a Public/Private partnership with businesses serious about addressing this scourge. Sharing the admin burden.

 

I find jail time problematic. We force the law abiding society, and the direct victims, to foot these idiots’ board and logging through our taxes. Here they are out of sight and out of mind, not serving any reminder of the consequences. We unfortunately also punish the kids of these idiots without a parent or at least the financial support.

 

So I say, let them continue to work. Forfeight their full estate to the government and pay 100% tax on their earnings. Let them receive a stipend from this to maintain a pre-defined standard of living, unrelated to the one they had before the crime. Residual can go to the affected family or alcoholic treatment programs.

 

On Friday’s you spend a night in local police cell as that comes with it’s own punishment. And weekends and some weeknights you work a job where the public can see you and invariably insult you. No holidays or travel. Daily Facebook and social media posts by the perpetrator stating that he/she was responsible for the death/injury to x.

 

Essentially you must remain tax positive and serve as a public example. If not - then of to jail.

 

Bottom line - we have a societal problem. We need to change attitudes. And rotting away in jail (if it happens) does not facilitate this.

 

PS. Some people must be removed from society, so this is not a blanket argument for all crimes.

You took it to the complete other end of the spectrum.... but I like it as a starting point.

 

Instead of giving guys suspended sentences, as we have seen a couple of times recently, the courts should really consider:

-community service sentences where you need to work 80h a month at an old age home or psychiatric ward or something like that.

-Compulsory AA sessions. Allot of people don't realise how dependent they actually are.

 

I like the social media mentions...make his parole officer post pictures of him paying his dues in the orange overall.

 

That way the transgressor can still honour his financial commitments to his family by earning an income, yet he is made to pay with his free time. It is better than ripping him away from them completely.

 

Maybe with relaxed sentences we can make the burden of proof lighter, so we can get more convictions even though the punishment isn't as hard as actual jail-time.

 

This is all just for being caught drunk-driving. Once people die because of your drunk driving, I think our prosecutors need to get their house in order to secure actual convictions with jail time and criminal records.

[stefmeister]

not just that, ive been off the booze for the past 6/7 months and something that really hit home with me in that time was how it is frowned upon or how you are judged when in a social setting and NOT drinking. you basically become the target for all the banter lol. ive never been a sucker for peer pressure but i can understand how some people just feel they have to to fit in. it is a weird culture we have indeed.

 

I now just tell people I'm a clinically diagnosed psychopath and alcohol diminishes the absolute control I crave over people and situations in social settings.  

 

Similar thing happened to me a few years ago. Couldn't drink more than half a Windhoek light without feeling crap. It's quite amazing how many random people would string up a conversation with you to know why you aren't drinking.

 

Anyhow, most of my mates and family enjoy drinking because we enjoy good wine and beer, not to get wasted. Get-togethers involve each one bringing some special wines and sharing in the experience. Apart from one friend, no one gives a hoot if you don't drink, it usually means there's more wine for the rest.

 

As tragic as the consequences of it, alcohol is very much ingrained in human civilization and cultures. Interesting read on the history of booze;

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/02/alcohol-discovery-addiction-booze-human-culture/

[RocknRolla]

I too used up all my luck in the 90s after school, being complete silly buggers with my mates. Luckily we all survived, with some war stories, but no loss of life or damage to property (other than our own vehicles's suspension and rims)

 

My dad always told me to call him if I had too much to drink. But I never did, I was never in the mood for the lecture. But in hindsight, I really should have.

 

I did however make sure that I made it clear to my son (now 19) that If he is drinking, and he cant sleep over, to call me or take an Uber. It has been going well. I think the education round the consequence (forget legal, but like in this case, lives destroyed) and the "dont drive if drinking"  needs to be taught strongly to our children. I guaranteed my son no lecture or ill consequence from my side if he calls me to fetch him if he had too much to drink.

 

I really enjoy my beer, having a couple with mates is a great way to wind down after a long week. Whenever I do this, I take an uber, or phone the wife to fetch me. My primary transport is a motorcycle, so that normally stays in the parkinglot, or I take it home before ubering to the pub. 

When we go out the wife is designated, as she doesn't drink.

 

The culture of showing off your "financial well-being" by daydrinking on youinstatwitface, and then driving around in your fancy car is toxic. I see so many times over week-ends guys in expensive cars with open beers and even glasses of whiskey with ice doing a run to the liqour store, and is scary as hell thinking we share the roads with these types.

 

Not to mention the night club in Rosebank where on a monday morning at 5am the drunkards spill out of that nightclub into their cars and onto the roads...it makes me extremely mad, even more so because i was stupid enough to do the same a long time ago.

[Bateleur1]

May I dare to suggest another approach as Banning alcohol outright brings so many other unintended consequences. (Like for instance increased gang violence, especially in suburbs currently not affected)

 

I would rather like to see less jail time and more public humiliation. Hear me out. All the posts above tells of a sort of social acceptance and childish coolness of drinking. How better then to see a convicted drunk driver on his knees in his orange jumpsuit in a public bathroom cleaning toilets every weekend. Managing bed pans at an old age home. It can be a Public/Private partnership with businesses serious about addressing this scourge. Sharing the admin burden.

 

I find jail time problematic. We force the law abiding society, and the direct victims, to foot these idiots’ board and logging through our taxes. Here they are out of sight and out of mind, not serving any reminder of the consequences. We unfortunately also punish the kids of these idiots without a parent or at least the financial support.

 

So I say, let them continue to work. Forfeight their full estate to the government and pay 100% tax on their earnings. Let them receive a stipend from this to maintain a pre-defined standard of living, unrelated to the one they had before the crime. Residual can go to the affected family or alcoholic treatment programs.

 

On Friday’s you spend a night in local police cell as that comes with it’s own punishment. And weekends and some weeknights you work a job where the public can see you and invariably insult you. No holidays or travel. Daily Facebook and social media posts by the perpetrator stating that he/she was responsible for the death/injury to x.

 

Essentially you must remain tax positive and serve as a public example. If not - then of to jail.

 

Bottom line - we have a societal problem. We need to change attitudes. And rotting away in jail (if it happens) does not facilitate this.

 

PS. Some people must be removed from society, so this is not a blanket argument for all crimes.

 

I do not recall too many cases where people actually end up in prison, even for driving under the influence and killing someone.  I do fully support your idea of a harsh sentence in community service.  Just driving under the influence (not even causing an accident) should buy you a year of mopping up the casualties room at Steve Biko or so for one day of the week.

[Grease_Monkey]

yes. but you know what i mean. theres always the the 'friendly' banter h first few minutes before everyone knows you arent drinking....especially between guys. 

 

"oh he must be pregnant",

"oh he must be a spy for the wives",

"don't worry he can be our designated driver",

"he cant handle his alcohol"

"here have a miller...thats not real beer"

 

the list is endless. and you've (like everyone) heard/used them all before lol

 

 

All about who's in the room. I know if I got smashed at a braai I'm gonna be the odd one out....

 

But I have been part of friend groups where it's exactly like you say. Needless to say I've moved on. Don't need that in my life.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Grease_Monkey

[Eldron]

May I dare to suggest another approach as Banning alcohol outright brings so many other unintended consequences. (Like for instance increased gang violence, especially in suburbs currently not affected)

 

I would rather like to see less jail time and more public humiliation. Hear me out. All the posts above tells of a sort of social acceptance and childish coolness of drinking. How better then to see a convicted drunk driver on his knees in his orange jumpsuit in a public bathroom cleaning toilets every weekend. Managing bed pans at an old age home. It can be a Public/Private partnership with businesses serious about addressing this scourge. Sharing the admin burden.

 

I find jail time problematic. We force the law abiding society, and the direct victims, to foot these idiots’ board and logging through our taxes. Here they are out of sight and out of mind, not serving any reminder of the consequences. We unfortunately also punish the kids of these idiots without a parent or at least the financial support.

 

So I say, let them continue to work. Forfeight their full estate to the government and pay 100% tax on their earnings. Let them receive a stipend from this to maintain a pre-defined standard of living, unrelated to the one they had before the crime. Residual can go to the affected family or alcoholic treatment programs.

 

On Friday’s you spend a night in local police cell as that comes with it’s own punishment. And weekends and some weeknights you work a job where the public can see you and invariably insult you. No holidays or travel. Daily Facebook and social media posts by the perpetrator stating that he/she was responsible for the death/injury to x.

 

Essentially you must remain tax positive and serve as a public example. If not - then of to jail.

 

Bottom line - we have a societal problem. We need to change attitudes. And rotting away in jail (if it happens) does not facilitate this.

 

PS. Some people must be removed from society, so this is not a blanket argument for all crimes.

 

They have a system here in Denmark called weekend jail. You live your normal life Mon-Fri then Fri night you report to your local prison, spend 3 nights there then head to work on Mon. I reckon it is an awesome system.

 

The state get's it tax, the family get their bread winner, the children grow up with a father (most of the time) but all his free time gets given to the state as payment for bad choices.

 

I don't reckon public humiliation is the way to go - someone is already a bit of an outcast to commit crime in the first place - public insulting will only distance them further (not rehabilitate them).

 

Either way - I'm with you. Jail time is expensive, destroys families, ruins the offender's life etc.

[kosmonooit]

I'm so over drinking .... but many I have known or know aren't/weren't. Sad to see the long term health effects panning out.

 

I grew up in culture of alcohol abuse, you weren't having fun unless you were drunk. The norm.

 

Dad would come home and knock a scotch on the rocks or three back every night .. no adverse thoughts  about that. Bottles of 'scotch' were often traded as gifts.

 

I believe the culture of alcohol abuse can be broken. But it will taken enlighten and progressive leadership to kickstart, and we are non-starters there.

 

I would also say the Brits generally drink too much, the pub culture is deeply rooted but the problem of tankedness is bigger than that  Although drunk driving is not too much of a problem there, there is more awareness of that. Opposite here,

[Kranswurm]

I am a very social and light drinker . Max 2 beers and NEVER anything else .

 

When offered / coerced into a drink I just say I am a recovering alcoholic and don't drink .

Works perfectly ... actually makes the person offering/forcing drinks feel like a real tjop ...

Why would you make people feel like a chop?Just be honest.You might be suprised

I think that is one of the positive things that has come out of the Covid-19 scene

We are all a little exposed  and have to share our space a little more selectively.If only that would extrapolate onto the road