Buyers Advice on Classified Ads

[justinafrika]

It wasn’t driven by any malevolence.  I’ve read every post on that thread in at least the last 18 months and at its spikiest I observed no malevolence or underhanded intent, info and bants predominated IMO.  I’ve found it exceptionally helpful in guiding this noob’s several component and bike purchases completed because of bike hub (edit: bikehub).  Gratitude all around.  

Edited June 14, 2022 by justinafrika
autocorrect issue

[Hairy]

29 minutes ago, Nick said:

Be honest, that thread was never primarily about helping newbies and keeping the Classifieds clean (and the same goes for the advert comments before it).

It's about a small group showing off what they've spotted in the Classifieds. This inevitably involves frivolous nitpicking, ridicule, and bullying. All of which is (poorly) hidden behind the pretence of community or having a laugh. This behaviour might be encouraged in other places on the internet but we have a vision for Bike Hub where it is not.

There are existing solutions to all the perceived problems that work exceptionally well. We've explained them countless times. But they meet resistance from a few users. So why? I think it's because of the following factors:

1. It is private (no kudos).
2. Pettiness can be ignored.
3. There is no mob.

As mentioned already in this thread, there is some merit to such discussions but it does not come close to justifying the glaring negatives.

Cool

Admin always notes the negatives from that thread or the previous comments on the classifieds, never highlights the positives.

The previous threads did also at times "self regulate", but also not enough.

Point's no. 1, 2 and 3 are rather petty.

It is clear, very clear.

I will do my best to just look the other way from now on with respect to any classifieds that are fooked and if people ask where they should look for used bikes and bike stuff I will send them here with the covering note that they need to first do their homework before just trusting an add and good luck.

[Nick]

12 minutes ago, Hairy said:

I will do my best to just look the other way from now on with respect to any classifieds that are fooked and if people ask where they should look for used bikes and bike stuff I will send them here with the covering note that they need to first do their homework before just trusting an add and good luck.

1. You can hit the report button. No need to look the other way.
2. As Matt mentioned, there are at least two Forum sections dedicated to people asking questions about their purchases. If they need help, tell them to post a question there. The advice they get at least be specific to their needs. It should be far more efficient than refreshing a thread all day in the hope that someone might happen to answer it for you.

But again, these solutions don't satisfy my petty points 1, 2, and 3.

[Hairy]

3 minutes ago, Nick said:

1. You can hit the report button.
2. As Matt mentioned, there are at least two sections dedicated to people asking questions about their purchases. If they need help, tell them to post a question there. The advice they get at least be specific to their needs. It should be far more efficient than refreshing a thread all day in the hope that someone might happen to answer it for them.

But again, these solutions don't satisfy my petty points 1, 2, and 3.

Nope, I am out of this. 

Good luck with the classifieds.

[M L]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Danger Dassie hits the nail on the head here. 

As we've gone to great lengths to explain in a number of posts in the YEARS since comments were removed there were pros and cons to Classifieds comments just as there were pros and cons to the subsequent petition thread.

Ultimately the cons outweighed the pros. 
Comments are not coming back. 
And the petition thread only reinforced that decision. Was there some merit to that thread? Absolutely. But similar to comments, on balance unfortunately it was a net negative.

We provide avenues to report problematic adverts. Please use them. 

If a newbie has questions about a particular bike they don't have to worry about being friends with Hairy or not. There's a fantastic Buyers guide forum or even a dedicated Newbies > Ask Anything forum. As history has proven, Hubbers are always willing to guide a newbie in the right direction. And if you think the bike they're keen on is worth 10% of the asking price by all means share that opinion with them on the thread.
 

I’m completely neutral to comments vs no comments.

But as you mentioned, there is merit to a measure/gauge/system that improves the quality of adds.

So here is a suggestion:

An add like button. A lot of other forums have them and I find them to be a good gauge of quality in those classifieds. 
 

Edited June 14, 2022 by M L

[Wayne pudding Mol]

The word bullying is bandied about far too freely these days

This used to be bicycle faceboob

now it’s bicycle scumtree , a commercial enterprise which is the owners prerogative 

Ive accepted this and buy and sell stuff here but find myself less involved in the community side

Bit sad really but it’s evolution baby, good or bad 

 

[TheoG]

14 hours ago, Hairy said:

 

there is a filter for this already

Yeah, only saw then after I shot my mouth ! ....  ☺️

[ACE Cycles]

19 hours ago, Hairy said:

Not sure what happened to the "Petition: Bring Back the Classifieds Comments"

But I see this as a thread to address any adverts that are BLATANTLY incorrect or misleading.

 

That's what the report button is for and it works well. 

I guess what the report button doesn't do is show your friends how smart you were for finding an issue, it also doesn't give you an opportunity to discuss it with the mob and make fun of the member that posted the ad.

[Jewbacca]

I just see it as people not wanting to use the site differently.

There is still a chitchat section, there is still a way to weed out bad sellers and there is still a way to assist potential buyers who actually want assisting. 

So, things have changed a bit and how those topics are and can be represented differs slightly, but the platform is still there. 

Middle aged/old people are just massively averse to change. That is a fact. So they will rather make a frivolous stand and find a hill to die on over some random change they don't like than accept that they can still do a lot of what they want to, they just have to go about it differently. 

I'm pretty open about the fact that comments and the comments thread were not a great reflection of an inclusive, accepting community. It was often just the same 15 to 20 guys sitting in a circle doing stuff to each other with a Marie in the middle. (Sometimes me included).

'That 2014 Epic came out with 2x XO not 1x SLX, it's not original!'... 'Ban HIM!'

erm, it's been 8 years, I'd hope that the owner burned through at least 2 different drive trains in 8 years. 

In the same breath 'Basically he removed an old 2x system and replaced it with a 1x on an 8 year old bike and has called it 'custom'.... PFFFFT'!!!

There were seldom winners there. 

Anyway, I will continue to be a part of the site and use it as I always have. Sometimes that is a lot, and other times far, far less.

That's life. Bikes are fun for me, they are joy and I don't really believe in any related causes or changes enough to accept avatar death.

If admin have the time or the ability, it would be an interesting exercise to track down how many 'non forum' or 'not so prolific' forum users actually opened the old thread.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Jewbacca

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

15 hours ago, Hairy said:

 

there is a filter for this already

Only works when those sellers are registered as dealers, which a good chunk of people who are CLEARLY just resellers are not. Anyway, I was just poking the bear, I accept the status quo

[Plentipotential]

10 hours ago, Wayne pudding Mol said:

The word bullying is bandied about far too freely these days

This used to be bicycle faceboob

now it’s bicycle scumtree , a commercial enterprise which is the owners prerogative 

Ive accepted this and buy and sell stuff here but find myself less involved in the community side

Bit sad really but it’s evolution baby, good or bad 

 

I agree with the above and I too moved away from the forum when the changes happened except to keep an eye on the classifieds. I eventually found the exact bike I hade been keeping an eye out for after 4 years! I got exactly what I was looking for thanks to the service offered here, as did the seller, we were both happy with the deal.

With the advent of interweb forums you were able to share information about your chosen hobbies/interests with a very wide range of individuals from all corners of the globe, fantastic. A lot of these forums then added a section for non specific topics which had absolutely nothing to do with the actual forum, then things started going south and I can only imagine that the many forum owners started to hate the beasts they had created. I like the new Bikehub, it's cycling related. Want to vent about the war in Ukraine? Go somewhere else, I'm here for the cycling and the very experienced opinions offered by interested members. Perhaps the members using the classifieds need to learn how to do some research into the product that they are looking to buy, start thinking for themselves like old gits like me had to do before the internet came along.

[ACE Cycles]

38 minutes ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

Only works when those sellers are registered as dealers, which a good chunk of people who are CLEARLY just resellers are not. Anyway, I was just poking the bear, I accept the status quo

Hit report, those dealers should pay for their ads like the rest of us 

[The Ouzo]

My opinion for the little its worth.

Matt and Nick want this site to go in a certain direction, but need to keep a balance of the community vs the commercial, I personally think they're getting this balance wrong and if they overshoot to much in the wrong direction it will be very difficult to bring back the community aspect. In the past Bikehub classifieds were known (even to non forum members) as a place to get a good honest deal on a used bike, it has moved away from that. But thats my opinion.

The argument of starting a new thread to ask about a deal only apeals to a very small % of people. I know of people who didnt even want to register on here to sell something and got someone else to do it for them, they'll never start a thread asking about a purchase. 

And those that frequent forums on the net also know that starting new threads on something that might have been discussed before is frowned upon. You get reprimanded and told to use the search function. I havent seen this behavior to much on BH but I have seen it a few times. This discourages newbies from starting new threads.

Heck, just before the petition thread got nuked I asked about a mongoose BMX price. Not because I wanted to buy it but because I wanted to educate myself as the price seemed high. It would have been pointless (IMHO) to start a new thread just for that.

 

I no longer browse the classifieds either as I know anything that was posted with a bargain price has been snapped up before I can get to it and will be reposted the next day at an inflated price.

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

28 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

Hit report, those dealers should pay for their ads like the rest of us 

I do it every time I find the urge, but nothing has ever been done. Ironically, the only time a clear reseller changed to a business account that I've seen was after being posted in the 'Classified Comments' thread. It's clearly just not something the mods care about and there's no point trying to be a hero. 

[DJuice]

I do not like change fact! Get up same time every day, always put the left shoe on first, it is either strawberry Pronutro with chocolate Nesquik or vise versa.

Been frequenting the Hub for many years, back to low 2000, first 4 years did not have a profile, left and came back after the big crash.

With my renewal this year, seriously considered to not renew for a value point of view and the lost community aspect. The days of the community standing together, supporting a hubber is gone.

Was privileged to meet three hubbers I previously only new by their Hub names, at the end of the day our love for bikes, cycling and making a difference is wat we had in common.

Would be interesting to see the stats of how many Plus members are left?

Is their an exit interview.

[ACE Cycles]

23 minutes ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

I do it every time I find the urge, but nothing has ever been done. Ironically, the only time a clear reseller changed to a business account that I've seen was after being posted in the 'Classified Comments' thread. It's clearly just not something the mods care about and there's no point trying to be a hero. 

Strange, maybe the mods don't like you. I proactively look for "resellers" trying to beat the system and my reports have been successful.